Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a bunch of Chinese surplus 7.62x54r ammo and it occurred to me that the bullets might shoot well in my SMLE. If I pull some of these down is there any way I can reuse the powder in the enfield as well? I weighed the charges from 5 pulled rounds and they averaged 45 gr. If I had a chronograph I could find the velocity and compare to similar powders with that charge. Unfortunately I don"t have a chronograph. I know I'll need to reduce the charge and work up but I'm just not sure how much? Any suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Yes you can. I do it all the time. I have a couple of things to mention though. (1) No one is going to tell you where to start other than make it a huge reduction. You will have to work up your own data with whatever powder is in there and make sure to keep an eye on powder lots. You will have to work up for each lot. Much harder without a chronograph, but you can get ballpark. Just use standard work up procedures and check for pressure signs. I have never pulled down and Chinese 54R, but I use several others. (2) 54R bullets aren't terribly accurate in an Enfield. Expect 3-4 inch groups at 100yds with light ball, worse with heavy ball.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes you can. I do it all the time. I have a couple of things to mention though. (1) No one is going to tell you where to start other than make it a huge reduction. You will have to work up your own data with whatever powder is in there and make sure to keep an eye on powder lots. You will have to work up for each lot. Much harder without a chronograph, but you can get ballpark. Just use standard work up procedures and check for pressure signs. I have never pulled down and Chinese 54R, but I use several others. (2) 54R bullets aren't terribly accurate in an Enfield. Expect 3-4 inch groups at 100yds with light ball, worse with heavy ball.
Thanks. Could you tell me what a huge reduction would be percentage wise?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,219 Posts
You have salvaged the bullets: saved yourself about 16 dollars per 100.
Go spend $25 and get a pound of rifle powder, which will eliminate Discovery Learning
with unknown powder and bring you a safe load per reloading manual.

The Enfields are not the strongest action in the world and experimenting with Chinese
powder of unknown characteristics is false economy. Its more a matter of not Yes You Can
but Why Would You re use unknown powder. Big Boy Rules Here.

I have had better luck than Morning Wood on use of these pulled 54R bullets in my No4Mk1 Long Branch
Enfield. With load development (IMR 4895 powder, new brass and modern boxer primers), been able to
get 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 100 yds. Not real great . I can hold the 8 ring easily at 300 yds ; often far better.
You will get Flyers as these bullets do vary in weight from one to another . If the drill is angle of man hits on
Army E type silhouettes, then "Hits" at 300 yds is 100% if you do your part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
You have salvaged the bullets: saved yourself about 16 dollars per 100.
Go spend $25 and get a pound of rifle powder, which will eliminate Discovery Learning
with unknown powder and bring you a safe load per reloading manual.

The Enfields are not the strongest action in the world and experimenting with Chinese
powder of unknown characteristics is false economy. Its more a matter of not Yes You Can
but Why Would You re use unknown powder. Big Boy Rules Here.

I have had better luck than Morning Wood on use of these pulled 54R bullets in my No4Mk1 Long Branch
Enfield. With load development (IMR 4895 powder, new brass and modern boxer primers), been able to
get 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 100 yds. Not real great
. I can hold the 8 ring easily at 300 yds ; often far better.
You will get Flyers as these bullets do vary in weight from one to another . If the drill is angle of man hits on
Army E type silhouettes, then "Hits" at 300 yds is 100% if you do your part.

I would consider that "pretty great" with an enfield. While on occasion, I get sub MOA 5-shot 100yd groups, they are the exception and not the norm. But this never happens with pulled 54R bullets. Actually, I guess a couple of my NO4's will shoot under 2" with some regularity, but I really have to work for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,219 Posts
I would consider that "pretty great" with an enfield. While on occasion, I get sub MOA 5-shot 100yd groups, they are the exception and not the norm. But this never happens with pulled 54R bullets. Actually, I guess a couple of my NO4's will shoot under 2" with some regularity, but I really have to work for it.
Actually, its not "Pretty Great" for an Enfield. This No.4Mk1* rifle will shoot sub MOA with 174 gr BTHP match loads at 100yds and hold into the 9 ring at 1000 yds. The Parker Hale Target sights on it HELP alot !!!!

Quality bullets fly best. Pulled 54R bullets....not in same food group as the match bullets and accuracy shows that clearly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Actually, its not "Pretty Great" for an Enfield. This No.4Mk1* rifle will shoot sub MOA with 174 gr BTHP match loads at 100yds and hold into the 9 ring at 1000 yds. The Parker Hale Target sights on it HELP alot !!!!

Quality bullets fly best. Pulled 54R bullets....not in same food group as the match bullets and accuracy shows that clearly.
Well, I'm still experimenting. Maybe I'll get there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,029 Posts
I have to agree with milprileb. I do re-use 54R components but for 54R loads. Guessing a start load for an unknown powder is not very safe. Like he said. "big boy rules" but destroying your rifle and maybe your health for some old used powder just don't seem to be worth the risk. JM2C.

Motor
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for all the input. I wasn't really looking to save money so much as just play around and have fun working up a load. I have lots of other components. Blowing up my rifle and/or myself is no fun at all. I'll leave well enough alone on this one.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,116 Posts
Powders in Eastern 7,62x54R are either Flake or Tubular; both run at about the same Burning Charactertistics as IMR3031-IMR 4895. ( Charge Depends on flake or tube).

Since the .303 and the 7,62x54R use approx. the same Case volume, I would simply Lot the Powder ( all from one Can of Cartridges) and then start with a 15 to 20% Reduced Load, and work up. You will use more Flake Powder than Tubular (it is less dense, and sits better in the case).

You will probably find the Load of Eastern Powder will approximate that of Western Powders for a .303. But "suck it and see".

As to the Berdan Pr4imed cases, don't throw them...make Re-enactment Blanks, 10-13 grains shotgun Powder, star Crimp (CH4D.com) and Lacquer the Point. Or custom load 7,62x54R with US Powder or even the original Powder with your favourite Hunting or Target Bullet. And save the cases (even if steel); Berdan .217 Primers are available (DAGAMMO.com).

Happy reloading.
Doc AV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Powders in Eastern 7,62x54R are either Flake or Tubular; both run at about the same Burning Charactertistics as IMR3031-IMR 4895. ( Charge Depends on flake or tube).

Since the .303 and the 7,62x54R use approx. the same Case volume, I would simply Lot the Powder ( all from one Can of Cartridges) and then start with a 15 to 20% Reduced Load, and work up. You will use more Flake Powder than Tubular (it is less dense, and sits better in the case).

You will probably find the Load of Eastern Powder will approximate that of Western Powders for a .303. But "suck it and see".

As to the Berdan Pr4imed cases, don't throw them...make Re-enactment Blanks, 10-13 grains shotgun Powder, star Crimp (CH4D.com) and Lacquer the Point. Or custom load 7,62x54R with US Powder or even the original Powder with your favourite Hunting or Target Bullet. And save the cases (even if steel); Berdan .217 Primers are available (DAGAMMO.com).

Happy reloading.
Doc AV
I had found data from Chinese surplus online but it was from a different lot than mine. Judging from the velocity vs the charge I was thinking it was pretty comparable to imr-4895. The powder is tubular. I've used my old steel cases in the past to load cast plinkers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
493 Posts
I fired some brass cased Chinese 7>82x54R over 24 years ago and it stank like urine. I don't think it was deteriorated as it performed well. I was wondering if this is the smell nitroguanidine gives off when used as one of the components of smokeless? I know it is used in smokeless for larger caliber weapons, but I haven't heard of it being used in small arms ammo. I don't know how it will effect reloading to another caliber it the Chinese powder contains it. I know this is stretching the topic a little.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top