Gunboards Forums banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
Joined
·
50,608 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Building and rebuilding over the last few years I think they are finally close enough to make me happy to stop now and just enjoy them for what they are. Going by this site I was going for a build of a late issue 603 and 604 clones: http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/ModGde/RflGde/603E1.html

The 603 build started off by finding the complete upper in a local shop for the astounding price of $250 which for a vintage Colt upper made for a rather cheap build. The 604 was started off by being the upper another forum member here helped me get at NGD at a very fair price (can't say thanks enough ;)). When I got home and stated looking at the parts and pieces I had it didn't take to realize that by adding or swapping a few parts here and there I could make some fairly close representations of the service rifles depicted on the site...

The 603 or M16A1 variant has a Colt 1-12 CL upper/barrel, A1 flash hider, older cloth silent sling and USGI furniture with the trap door in the butt. It uses a Bushmaster full fence lower. This one turned out very close to what the site lists as a late issue M16A1, the lower is incorrect but it doesn't bother me much, if I was to ever come across a decent early Colt lower I might swap it out, but that's not much of a concern to me.

The 604 has a repro Fulton Armory upper with a 1-8 twist CL barrel and A1 flash hider, it also has a cloth silent sling and its USGI furniture is lacking the butt trap. It's lower is a full fence Armalite lower (yes it too is incorrect but again it really doesn't bother me). The main flaw with this one (to my eye) is the use of a tapered delta ring VS flat, but being it's such a pain to change I doubt that I'm ever going to swap it...

I also picked up a USGI side sling adapter for my M4A1 clone so that too is complete which is another project done (although not as retro as these ;)). Now I need to find a decent ex-USGI A2 upper and finish out the collection...
 

Attachments

·
Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
Joined
·
50,608 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
They probably ought to be phosphate with the slick side AR having a slick side (non forward assist) BCG, but when you got shiny BCG's and nothing else to put in them, why not use them? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,080 Posts
Yes, indeed, very nice.
Where did the bolt release on the 604 come from?
It appears to be an early version.
Something you had on hand or what?
Thanks
 

·
Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
Joined
·
50,608 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yes, indeed, very nice.
Where did the bolt release on the 604 come from?
It appears to be an early version.
Something you had on hand or what?
Thanks
It was on the Armalite lower when I bought it, I think it's close by not exact (although I'm not going to change it out :)).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,080 Posts
Yes, close, photos I have seen of the samples at the Springfield Armory collection show flat spot between the paddle and the lower area.
Figured that if it was commercially available it would be easier to mill flat in that area than to build up a modern one and cut the grooves.
Google - Fu has turned up only modern versions.
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,998 Posts
Its a kick in the pants that folks want to recreate what we carried in Viet Nam and I must admit at the time, I did not notice such things as size / shape of bolt release, fenced / non fenced receiver , nor gave a hoot about what type flash hider was on the snout of barrel. Some had chromed BCG, some not and no consistency for what model M16 had either type BCG..parts swap had happened long before I showed up. They all worked though and I also don't recall what model M16 showed up made by H&R either.

My focus at the time had a time window of now to 90 seconds from now. The fact I was carrying heirloom historic weapons of various variants never crossed my mind. Historic...it was just that if one made it from sun up to sun down..now that was epic stuff.
 

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
10,521 Posts
Its a kick in the pants that folks want to recreate what we carried in Viet Nam and I must admit at the time, I did not notice such things as size / shape of bolt release, fenced / non fenced receiver , nor gave a hoot about what type flash hider was on the snout of barrel. Some had chromed BCG, some not and no consistency for what model M16 had either type BCG..parts swap had happened long before I showed up. They all worked though and I also don't recall what model M16 showed up made by H&R either.

My focus at the time had a time window of now to 90 seconds from now. The fact I was carrying heirloom historic weapons of various variants never crossed my mind. Historic...it was just that if one made it from sun up to sun down..now that was epic stuff.
Skip:

I sincerely enjoy your posts.

And thanks for your service. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,080 Posts
You are correct, Sir, it is indeed a curious madness.

When I started down the path to collect (and use) all of the cartridge rifles that the US issued (minus the somewhat esoteric Lee Navy and the "training use" varieties), it was relatively simple and (relatively) affordable.

Thirty years later I find that I need to have nearly as many AR variants as there were other models from the previous 100 years.
Of course from the M14 forward I'm using the civilian legal variants sans the joy switch but it works for me so........

One other reason I'm chasing this whole retro thing is the feeling of dismay that I felt when they took the light and handy A1 version I was carrying away and handed me an A2.
The thing felt like a log to me.

All in all its been fun, though!
 

·
Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
Joined
·
50,608 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Remember if any of you all find one of those "logs" (A2 uppers) help a brother out and let me know where :)
 

·
Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
Joined
·
50,608 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
My MForgery ;) now with the correct forward side swivel. It's about 95% Colt (SOCOM 14.5 barrel) along with a USGI Afghan bring back carry handle courtesy of my son ;) As I said I think I ought to look for a nice A2 next just to round out the group...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Richard, the other Epic thing was if you lucked out and got the C Rat with the pound cake and can of peaches. That was heaven. Hell was getting ham & lima beans.

Always preferred the fruit cake, a can of the spicy beef and a couple of those round chocolate disks with nuts in them!
bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
@mriddick: Very cool. My interests veer towards the very things that you are trying to collect and reproduce (through I don't know why). While I am not an expert, it looks like you've done a thoughtful job of it.

@milprileb: Thanks for adding this context. It is gracious of you — and I say this with no sarcasm at all — not to call us a bunch of silly idiots. I am interested in your view of the picture about equally with mriddick's. Maybe this whole collecting thing represents a deep desire to connect the two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Always preferred the fruit cake, a can of the spicy beef and a couple of those round chocolate disks with nuts in them!
bob
I caught the very end of the C Rats, cake in a can with the icing always on the bottom for some reason, that, and the meat products, are what I remember from summer camp.

My friends dad was a Bataan death march survivor, and he kept cases of C rats in his basement, his kid would bring them for us to eat at night.

Graduated to MRE's and never looked back, but, the freeze dried strawberries in the early MRE's was the best, all of the freeze dried fruit was good, and I wish they still issued it.

As for the Retro AR's, my first was an SP1 CAR, I'm starting to date myself, because at the time it was the rifle, or the carbine, that was it for available models.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Good work MRiddick. Looks good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
Richard, the other Epic thing was if you lucked out and got the C Rat with the pound cake and can of peaches. That was heaven. Hell was getting ham & lima beans.
ROFLMAO at the "Ham & Mothers" rememberance.... :thumbsup::thumbsup: for the pound cake and peaches!!

I bought my first SP1 in 1972 after waiting almost a year for my small time local gun shop to get it in. I was a young E5 with a young family and sold it in '76 cause we needed extra money at the time. I finally found a "closet queen" SP1 1982 mfg a couple of years ago for right at $2K and bought it - more out of nostolgia than value. It is a joy to shoot and brings back memories of my trip to SE Asia in 1970. Not all experiences were bad - got a couple of good addresses on Tudo Street in Saigon - good memories too!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Building and rebuilding over the last few years I think they are finally close enough to make me happy to stop now and just enjoy them for what they are. Going by this site I was going for a build of a late issue 603 and 604 clones: http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/ModGde/RflGde/603E1.html

The 603 build started off by finding the complete upper in a local shop for the astounding price of $250 which for a vintage Colt upper made for a rather cheap build. The 604 was started off by being the upper another forum member here helped me get at NGD at a very fair price (can't say thanks enough ;)). When I got home and stated looking at the parts and pieces I had it didn't take to realize that by adding or swapping a few parts here and there I could make some fairly close representations of the service rifles depicted on the site...

The 603 or M16A1 variant has a Colt 1-12 CL upper/barrel, A1 flash hider, older cloth silent sling and USGI furniture with the trap door in the butt. It uses a Bushmaster full fence lower. This one turned out very close to what the site lists as a late issue M16A1, the lower is incorrect but it doesn't bother me much, if I was to ever come across a decent early Colt lower I might swap it out, but that's not much of a concern to me.

The 604 has a repro Fulton Armory upper with a 1-8 twist CL barrel and A1 flash hider, it also has a cloth silent sling and its USGI furniture is lacking the butt trap. It's lower is a full fence Armalite lower (yes it too is incorrect but again it really doesn't bother me). The main flaw with this one (to my eye) is the use of a tapered delta ring VS flat, but being it's such a pain to change I doubt that I'm ever going to swap it...

I also picked up a USGI side sling adapter for my M4A1 clone so that too is complete which is another project done (although not as retro as these ;)). Now I need to find a decent ex-USGI A2 upper and finish out the collection...
They look awesome, I too did a XM build, but didn't go into the detail you did. I am using a Stag lower but a Colt upper. It looks close enough for me, but I'm no purest.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
I'm in the process of building my Son an A1 style rifle, No Dak Spud contacted that my A1 upper receivers are ready to ship. I got in on probably some of the last C-Rats the AF used, we ate them on the Confidence Course, I loved the fruit cake and there was some kind of orange loaf also. First time I saw MRE's was in the early 80's on Columbus AFB when we were doing Prime Beef maneuvers, for some reason just about all the MRE's were Chicken Ala King. Out of about 58 people that ate the Chicken Ala King 41 got sick. Fortunately I had something with ham in it.

Steve...........
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top