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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Will be their may 22nd, friday, though may 27th, a weds. Very excited. Have my large alice pack, going to start picking up food. I would post pics of the gear I have collected so far, but I have not gotten the pic feature to work for me yet.....

Again, the drive for me is 16 hours, realistically more like 18 with a few stops thrown in. Me and two close guy friends. Upon arrival at the hilltop, I am going to change out of the clothes I drive down in, to save as 'clean' clothes for the drive back, and wear two pairs of clothes for the 4 day period we will be their. Intend to bath a couple of times with bio-degradeable soap in the river. But my priority is food and water. We'll have a water purifier/pump, and iodine tablets if we need them. Going to take 6 MRE's, or 1 a day for lunch, and pick up some mountainhouse food packets. The hike to the colorado river will be purely an mre day, so 2 that day, and 1 extra. Granola bars, outmeal for breakfast. And some kool-aid/lemonade packets to mix in canteen water, as I think it would be a decent source of sodium. And yes, we will be hiking it in. Also have some strange but large aluminum canteen with a good carrier, which I intend to carry my insulin in, as I think that the water I keep it in in the canteen will keep the insulin cool in the heat. I also intend to put some better shoulder straps on the alice pack, the ones that strap in the middle, as I have been advised this eases the pain and strain on the shoulders.

Very, VERY excited about this trip. We all are.


Very excited. If I emailed a few pics to someone would they post them?
 

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Empress of the Underworld and Diamond Bullet Membe
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Sounds like a great trip, good for you!!!

If you still need someone to post pics, pm me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Wow......I just read about the female japanese tourist that was brutally robbed and murdered at havasu falls in may of 2006. Aparently, an 18 year old thug indian stabbed her 29 times, including once in the skull, and threw her body in the falls. Aparently, the tribe has kept some social ills secret. Like methamphetamin use, and alcohol smuggleing......I am most definatly carrying their. Either my tokarev or my feg AP......Probably the FEG, as its concealable. But maybe the romanian tok in the leather holster, with a spare mag loaded with h/p's.......

I hate too, but one article talked about how the police are so understaffed in the reservation that they usually don't prosecute criminals, but let them go. I am still going, but will be carrying. I don't know what the punishment is for carrying their if you get caught, but I'll take that chance to avoid being the next body found floating.

Sad, a beautiful place. I'll still enjoy it though...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
wow, desriptions of this place start to get a bit frightening. Either way I am going, but will sleep with a handgun. Damn.
 

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I'd worry more about getting my blood sugar or insulin levels screwed up if i were you - I gather from one of your posts that you are an insulin-dependent diabetic, and I'd suggest that you might want to talk to your doctor and pharmacist about how to handle that (including property preservation of your insulin supply). I think there are some recent developments in that regard concerning some varieties that don't require refrigeration - might want to look into that.

That said - I'd not go into an area like Havasu Falls without an equalizer, whoch I'd probably carry the same way I did the Model 19 I packed last time I was in Rocky Mountain Nat'l PArk. Fanny pack rig, very concealed, but quite accessible. Never took it out or needed to (except for the daily cleaning after we were back where we stayed), but I felt much better for having it.
 

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Yep, it is. But a heck of a climb down - and back up. One i can't make any more, though there was a time... it's Hell to get old and crippled. Especially the crippled part.
 

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Well, atleast you arent going to go in June or July. Still should be plenty warm, I would stay in the water. I agree with Clyde though you should go talk to your MD, befor the trip. You dont want a insulin emergency out in the middle of no where. Enjoy the trip, but take every precaution to make it a safe one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I will be fine. Going to keep all of my insulin on me at all times. Going to keep it in a large canteen, in water, with the bottles in a plastic sealed bag, as this will keep it cooled where it needs to be. I have done a ton of camping and hikeing trips before, and know how my body responds to it. I'll have emergency kits on me (the hypodermic) and both friends know how to use them. The only difference between this place and others I have been is that help is just farther away. I have done similiar trips, where I pushed my body. I'll be responcible: like I told my wife, as much as I love everyone, I AM THE ONE WHO DIES, so I will be taking care of myself.

But yes, I will be carrying. I just don't know whether it will be the feg AP or the tokarev. Do I need something as powerful as the tokarev? I don't know. The 32 isn't great. I could always take my wifes beretta 84BB.....She could keep the AP.....I don't know.
 

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I stood right where those pictures were taken. It is incredioble.
And russkie, the social ills of the indians are no secret - they're there for all to see. Sad state of affairs. This was the first I'd heard of violence directed at tourists though. The only positive is that if you get into trouble with your diabetes there should be plenty of local expertise as diabetes is rampant among the indians for reasons that have 30% to do with genetics and 70% to do with lifestyle (obesity, heavy drinking)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have to admit though, that we began tentatively looking for another place last night. At least a backup, in case it goes sour. People have posted on hiking forums about how dirty the place has become over the years......As in mountains of shit in unemptied porta poties. Trash laying everywhere in the camping area. And I read one guy who went in alone, and woke up at 1am with two indian youth putting a flashlight in his face and threatening him. Telling him not to get up, as they ransacked his bag. Then they went on and did it to other tents. He then hiked out and went home the next day.

The other thing is, what do you do? If I am woken by two indian shits doing this, what do I do if I have a gun? Let them ransack my shit? Or shoot them? Or hold them at gunpoint, until the cop arrives, and then myself get into trouble for having the gun? Just a lot of stuff to think about. Pretty sure we will be going, but the thought of going to maybe the grand tetons, or trying to find a decent backpacking place in the rockes has crossed our minds. I have read that havvasu has recently been making a great effort to clean it up, and are in the process of hiring more police then the 3 they used to have. But I am sure they still have the meth problems, drug problems. Violence problems.

Don't really know. Now we have the reservation, and we still want to go. I still badly want to go. But if the whole time we are worried about loosing our gear, or being robbed by indians, especially if I looose any gear with medical supplies......

??
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
well, aparently this is not the only violence directed at tourists. Many others have been robbed or attacked. They had 10 federal investigations of assault between , I think, may 06 and january 07. I googled 'murder at havasu falls' and found several hiking forums or travel forums where about 40-50% of people reported some scary encounters, while the others seemed oblivious to anything.

Again, I am looking for no trouble. But I need someway to ensure that I am not robbed, especially of my gear. If I am robbed of my insulin, say, what do I do? I also don't want to be stabbed 29 times and be thrown into the river.

We will likely still go, and we will likely pack our entire gear sets to the colorado river, or the falls, and leave only the tent and bags alone.

Strangely, I have yet to hear of vandalization of cars at the hilltop. You'd think this would be a prime spot for it.
 

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You'll probably be fine as far as being robbed is concerned. Probably won't happen.

As far as letting yourself be robbed while packing - remember the old adage: "Better to e tried by 12 than carried by 6". Bad guys who find a gun on you are quite likely to use it. On you.

And if you get robbed and lose your insulin - probably better hope somebody can get the word to emergency help. You just might, otherwise, die.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
for me, with no insulin, in a day or two I'd begin getting seriously sick. As in kedoacidosis. But it would take time. We'd have to leave immediatly. But without my emergency kit (hyperdermic and glucose solution), if I roll over into seizures, I am screwed. My freinds might be able to pour regular mt dew in my mouth long enough for it to start taking effect and raising my blood sugar, but it would be dicy. Either way, THAT doesn't happen. And thats the thing: No one would be able to steal from me. So I would have to pull my gun, as its close to a death sentence if this stuff is stolen......

My friend pointed out one far less likely scenario, but still interesting: I run off a couple of methed up indians, who instead of coming back with police come back with methed up friends with firearms. I think if it happenes, we would be leaving without our tent.
 

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Have you checked what the CCW laws are on reservations?

Really is a shame you have to worry about this sort of thing when planning such a great trip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Oh, arizona is a ccw state, but the reservation doesn't allow firearms. And they frown on knives. But its also a long ways from any real law. Read about it, google 'murder at havasu falls'. One problem they have had is that with onoly 3 BIA police officers, they can't stakk their little prson (really a couple of jail cells), so they onoly keep tribal criminals for a few days. And then let them go, and never charge them. So the meth head run free, drug runners run free, the guys who have reportedly beaten up tourists and robbed them go free......Its lawless. Like I said, they are trying to hire more officers, but I don't know if they have yet.

And I don't depend on police for my safety EVER. So I am carrying, either way. If they had 40 police in the area, I still would.

EVen months ago I was wondering about drug problems their. Just never thought it would be problems with violence....
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
those of you here who have been their, describe the trip. Did you feel unwelcome? Aparently their is some anger felt towards the tourists.....Ever feel threatened?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
those of you here who have been their, describe the trip. Did you feel unwelcome? Aparently their is some anger felt towards the tourists.....Ever feel threatened?
 

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My only interactions with the ****** was at the convenience store on the reservation. There were few around the camping areas. This is the first I've heard of problems.
The porta-potties were aweful; I used shrubbery and a folding shovel.
 
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