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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a CZ82 with faint engraving of the importer identification. I plan to blast and polish the price and have it professionally refinished. What are the consequences of having the importer information unrecognisable or removed as a result of aggressive polishing and blasting the metal?
 

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consequences ....a refinished gun without importer marks......reducing over all value but looks good!
 

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i know only required for importer.....not a sn so i know of not law for us....unless its the SN.
but if its done to increase values no import mark, refinished hidden thats fraud!
 

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I'm only refinishing it for my personal use and gratification. I realise it will remove all collector value. I plan on a $150 refinish and $100 in new grips. The refinish will cost more than the pistol is worth but I'm interested in some "eye candy" that shoots really well. I'll pass it down to my sons some day who will appreciate it for the work I have done on it and not it's collector value.
 

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bad advice; even worse advice to put it on a public forum;

Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). This is in response to your email, dated December 3, 2010, in which you made an inquiry regarding the removal importer marking:

The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 states: “It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number, removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.” [18 U.S.C. 922(k)].



We trust this correspondence has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact your local ATF Industry Operations Office. A list of ATF Office telephone numbers can be found at: http://www.atf.gov/field .
 

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bad advice; even worse advice to put it on a public forum;

Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). This is in response to your email, dated December 3, 2010, in which you made an inquiry regarding the removal importer marking:

The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 states: “It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number, removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.” [18 U.S.C. 922(k)].



We trust this correspondence has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact your local ATF Industry Operations Office. A list of ATF Office telephone numbers can be found at: http://www.atf.gov/field .
Everyone knows this and no one said they were going to do it.
 

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I'm only refinishing it for my personal use and gratification. I realise it will remove all collector value. I plan on a $150 refinish and $100 in new grips. The refinish will cost more than the pistol is worth but I'm interested in some "eye candy" that shoots really well. I'll pass it down to my sons some day who will appreciate it for the work I have done on it and not it's collector value.
IMHO any collector value took a hit when it was import marked, which is a sad piece of reality. However I can't see removing knocking it down but if there's any value decrease it'll be due to the refinishing. Which as you state, is your choice! :)
 

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Everyone doesn't know it and when someone says they want to make the "importer information unrecognisable or removed" it could be read by someone as removing the SN too. No harm in making sure someone doesn't read that and obliterates the import mark with the importers SN on it, which could happen the way the question was asked.

Everyone knows this and no one said they were going to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Everyone doesn't know it and when someone says they want to make the "importer information unrecognisable or removed" it could be read by someone as removing the SN too. No harm in making sure someone doesn't read that and obliterates the import mark with the importers SN on it, which could happen the way the question was asked.
I realise the serial numbers should not be tampered with. Neither the original or the one assigned by the importer. I feel some importers could use better judgement in how and where they place their import engravings though. I feel the desirabity of the piece to their customers would be enhanced if
more thought and craftsmanship went into their engraving. I'm too much of a perfectionist I suppose.
 

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yea I feel the same way, As long as the SN is untouched I think you are OK, but I still wouldn't go around posting about it, that's all any of us need is a ATF rookie with a Barney Fife syndrome looking to make someone pay.

I realise the serial numbers should not be tampered with. Neither the original or the one assigned by the importer. I feel some importers could use better judgement in how and where they place their import engravings though. I feel the desirabity of the piece to their customers would be enhanced if
more thought and craftsmanship went into their engraving. I'm too much of a perfectionist I suppose.
 

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I would not alter the import mark. Think of it this way. The import mark is required by law for the same reason the serial number is required. Both are used to trace the firearm.

Let's say a cz82 is found at a crime seen. Without the import mark how would the ATF start the trace? Who would they contact to run the serial number? The trace begins with the manufacturer if it is a US made gun or the importer if a foreign made gun. Based on that, I think it would be safe to assume that removal on the import mark would be treated the same as removal of the serial number. To be sure, you could start reading the 1968 GCA.
 

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I would not do it. I have a M1917 that is import marked, scrubbed receiver with electro-pencil serial number on the side. If I were to remove the importers marks and leave the serial number, how does one identify any info on it? What about when these rifles are logged into a bound book? One book will have the info and the next one will not. Is it really worth the trouble?

James
 

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Red area.
Any LEO will question if there has been any illegal altering of legally required markings and the same goes for any FFL or experienced collector; consequently you may lose: your pistol, your freedom, your reputation. In other words, they will look at the alterations that you HAVE made and wonder about other alterations that you MAY have made.
Today you plan on keeping the pistol forever, tomorrow? Tomorrow it's several hundred dollars sitting in your safe that could go to your dream gun.
The only time I get aggressive with a firearm is when I have active rust.
 

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I realise the serial numbers should not be tampered with. Neither the original or the one assigned by the importer. I feel some importers could use better judgement in how and where they place their import engravings though. I feel the desirabity of the piece to their customers would be enhanced if
more thought and craftsmanship went into their engraving. I'm too much of a perfectionist I suppose.
+1 on the importers using some common sense on where and how they place their markings. Some of the more recent rc k98s with that big ugly stamp on the side of the receiver ring I wouldn't give 50.00 for. IMO they are hurting their sales, at least by me they are. Didn't mean to get off track here, but I agree with the OP in wanting rid of the mark.
 

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pgaplayerless
That applies to Mosins. CZ82s have their own S/N and most are actually import marked on the slide, not the frame.
I've had several pass through here with new serial #s stamped on the frame (from Century). They were put there by the importer and are not the same factory # that's on the frame/slide.
Allan Schisel
 

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You heard what happened really at Waco don't ya?....David Koresh was tricked into cutting down an imported shotguns' barrel shorter and eliminated the import mark in the process which is what they got him on, so they arrested him, changed his name, and did a forced sex change on him and called him Janet Reno, one of the ugliest public figures of the 1990's! DON'T DO IT AND TALK OF IT ON THE INTERNET, EVEN IF IT IS AN ACCIDENT THAT THE IMPORT MARK ISN'T EVEN LEGIBLE ANYMORE AFTER REFINISHING! I mean, it aint worth getting yer "shotgun barrel and shell sack" hacked off to a nub by the fed guvment! I mean, they could change your name and sex to Hillary Clinton, or Chelsea Clinton, two of the ugliest and distateful figures in recent times.

But yeah, I mean, some of these import marks have a new serial number in them, so its like any refinishing has to be associated with care or common sense. I mean, I think if a import mark disappeared accidently and you weren't like doing this to firearms on purpose and talking of it that it aint a big deal, but here you are. There was a company buying romanian sks's some years back that made the news, that every romo sks they bought and sold at guns shows it was found they removed the ten round mag and inserted a thirty rounder removeable mag, a big no no considering they did it countless times, and the atf went after them at a gunshow instead, I mean, once again, the common sense thing where they broke the chain of clear thought, especially sks rifles are best as original condition.
 
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