Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
226 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can't find any other place to post this so lets stick it in here and if you guys can come up with a better place then I'll go there and ask the same question.

I recently purchased a Remington Rolling Block military rifle in 7mm, the is a Spanish rifle and I understand there are supposed to be some problems with the chamber dimensions and modern case dimensions, not sure what I need to do about this. I put three rounds of commercial ammo through it and the cases about a quarter inch up from the base have a definite distortion, doesn't effect extraction one bit. I didn't like the recoil so I'm going to brake these rounds down and reduce the charge by about 10% or so. The two problems I have with this are one; what can I do if anything to help with case life as I will be reloading all of my ammo for this once I shoot up the five boxes of commercial that I have, and two; it has a terrible trigger pull, anyone have an idea on how I can improve this, can the hammer spring be lightened anyway? If you folks have any ideas I would really like to hear them, and thanks ahead of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
7mm Rollingblocks are notorious for stretching and distorting cases. Back when surplus 7x57 was common, no one cared very much. You can preserve case life, somewhat, by neck sizing but don't expect too much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
very little can be done about the trigger pulll, most of them are about#20.Is yours a 1897 or 1901 model, the 1901 has the ejector on it.? Also neck sizing doesn't help much because on most of them, the necks are about .020 oversize, so the necks get cracks first.Because most of the ammo was berdan primed, the firing pins are long for boxer primers and it's possible to get punchered primers, in which case you have a semi-automatic single shot.I stopped shooting mine about 16 years ago because of these problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
226 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, explain to me why one could not lighten the main spring? The main spring in the rolling block is a lot like the ones found in the Winchester high wall single shot rifles in that it's a large curved spring that should not suffer from thinning, which would lighten it some. It would seem to me that this wouldn't hurt the function of the rifle so long as the spring wasn't lightened to the point the hammer fall would no longer ignite the primers. I would imagine the same could be done with the trigger return spring unless it's design shape prevents that for some reason, never been into the action deep enough to see what that spring looks like but lighter mainsprings and trigger springs are used all the time to lighten up the action on rifles and handguns now days. Many military firearms were made with strong mainsprings to insure ignition of all types of ammo that might have been used over the life of the firearm and in some cases as a safety factor, it kept the solder from accidentally firing the weapon at the wrong time and taking out one of his own. I have no clue this is the reason for the heavy spring on the Remington rolling block, may just be due to a desire to produce a spring that would hold up under adverse conditions. I guess I can get a spare spring if I can find one and give it a try and see what I can come up with, as for the reloading and shooting, well I'm going to shoot this old sister so I'll just have to live with the fact I will have to replace a lot of brass, one of the downsides of ownership. Maybe some day I can get a new barrel with proper chamber and configuration so I can use the same wood and metal. Thanks for you help guys, I really do appreciate you comments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
Having a minimum chamber cut may help a little Vlad, but the problem with the Remington 7mm isn't the chamber. The problem is with the design itself: there is a small amount of play or backlash in the pins holding the breech block and the hammer as well as in the fit of the breech block and hammer themselves. When subjected to smokeless chamber pressures the combined backlash of hammer and breech block and their respective pins combine to produce, in effect, an excessive headspace condition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
226 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The throat on this rifle is, for what ever reason, excessive. The fired case lets a 7mm slug drop down inside without ever touching either side. The diffference compared to other firearms and their fired and unfired cases is very visible, so what ever I do I'm gong to have to do a good deal of resizing. I guess I could go have the barrel rebored to .30 caliber and turn it into a 7mm-30, which would take care of my chamber problem especially when I reduce the charge, and only neck size the brass using a .30 caliber collet die and .30 caliber seating die. Ok, tell me why this wouldn't work, besides the cost of having the barrel rebored, and the fact that I haven't a clue where to find a smith to do the work.
 

·
Moderator / Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
2,665 Posts
I replaced the trigger spring with the single coil from www.rollingblockparts.com .
Made a huge difference. I did it on two Swedish RB.

And I polished the mainspring. It looked like it was made with a dull hatchet.





Cleaned, deburred, polished, lubricated with Tetra grease. Unbelievably better all around. I actually disassembled the rifle to include removing the barrel to cut/crown install new front sight and brown the barrel. So it was basically a major rehab. Smooth as silk!



Dutch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I had a 7mm Mauser that had chamber problems; case separation and neck splitting.
I made new brass out of .30/06 military match brass. Sized them in a 7mm Mauser die and trimmed to length.
The added thickness of the shortened brass took care of both problems and gave me 5 to 10 reloads depending on pressures. May be worth a try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,265 Posts
In his new book on Rolling Block rifles, George Layman recommends NOT firing any of the 7x57 Rolling Block rifles with milsurp or new commercial ammo.

Caveat Emptor!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
226 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
My game plan now is to take the commercial ammo I have and pull the bullets and decrease the charge substantially, but safely. This may effect accuracy but for right now I am more interested in having it kick me in the shoulder and making the hillside dust up a little than in true accuracy. In the future all my reloads will be on the mild side and when my 7x57 brass has all been worked through and no longer re loadable, how ever many reloads that will take per casing, then I'll form some new ones using 30-06 cases as has been suggested and they will be form fitted to the chamber length and then all I'll have to worry about is cracks in the necks from overwork due to an over sized throat. I want to thank all of you folks for you help with this little project. Now to come up with brass and dies and slugs for the new one that is coming in a week or so, a .43 Spanish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
590 Posts
As an addition to what Paul has said above... most 7mm RBs were mostly sold to Latin American countries largely on the basis that they were nearly indestructible. (But not to Spain - who never bought them."Spanish Model" is a reference to a rifle chamberd for the 7mm Spanish Mauser cartridge.) Surprisingly, they were not much cheaper (if cheaper at all) than most bolt-action rifles and definitely more expensive than used bolt actions. (For example, the wholesale price of the M1891 Argentine Mauser was practically the same as the retail price of the M1897 RB) Their attraction was their rugged dependable action, almost impervious to miss-use and neglect. In countries where there were limited repair facilities and an almost universally illiterate conscript army, this was extremely important. Reloading the ammunition was never contemplated. The buyers may even have preferred it this way. They did not want potential revolutionaries capturing arms and reloading ammunition. A fixed cartridge breechloader is a club if you can't get the ammunition, and cartridges, if they can't be reloaded, are realistically impossible to make by anyone not having a full-fledged factory at their disposal.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,116 Posts
Whilst most of what JVPuleo has said is correct, reloading of cases by Locals for any rifle has never been an obstacle, however much Governments try to prevent "the natives" from doing so....look at the North-West Frontier ( now Pakistan)...British .303 Berdan primed ammo, Rifles with "funny "threads, etc,...the Gunsmiths at Durrah adam Kel simply shrugged these "impedimenta" off, and proceeded to reload the ammo with Chopped-up Nitro-stock film, Wax matches for priming compound, and Primer cups punched by hand from Copper sheet. More recently Powder was an unknown "nitro" type powder, but occasioanlly they also used Black Powder (home made, of course)... If one thinks that the Bandidos and "insurrectos" of Latin America were any the less, they have a lot to learn....Even the American Apaches of the South West were "reloading" their ammo in the 1880s, making their own Musket caps and re-filling Centerfire and Rimfire-primed cases.....

I have a M1902 Rem. Rolling Block (DCP (Canadian) Issue), WW I, in almost new Condition. I found that Newly Formed 7x57 cases ( using FN 30/06 Berdan brass)
Did tend to stretch when used "from the FLS die", but when fitted to the chamber, a la George Nonte ( size till the Bolt/block closes), the cases no longer stretch or crack quickly, and last up to ten reloads. The Thicker web Military .30/06 cases also help in this regard, as well, I use 1900 era 7mm Loads as well ( 175 grain, RN, and either #3031 or similar "medium effect" Powder.

The other factor with 7x57mm, is that in about 1920, the specs of the 7mm case vis-a-vis Chamber dimensions also changed, so that pre-1920 chambers of whatever rifle design, tend to stretch modern 7x57 Ammo ( The difference is most noted when combining US made 7x57 Rifles and European made 7x57 Ammo.)

So, if you weant to regularly shoot your 7x57RB, use moderate loads (NOT Modern Commercial or Milsurp) and then try to use resized 30/06 or 270 brass, to get a better fitting case, just in case (a) the Action is slightly out of spec (b) to make the cases last longer.

Better still, use cast bullets....for more plinking fun.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
....two; it has a terrible trigger pull, anyone have an idea on how I can improve this, can the hammer spring be lightened anyway? If you folks have any ideas I would really like to hear them, and thanks ahead of time.
I am not an advocate of lightening springs to improve trigger pull but, in my experience in shooting somewhat over 60 years, the best solution may be to shim out the full cock notch to limit the depth of engagement of the sear. I know there are gunsmiths who stone or grind the lip of the notch to decrease its depth but once you have removed metal, it is tough to put it back--hence reduce the depth by adding to the bottom of the notch. I have used soft solder, epoxy, and super glue at different times to attach a thin brass piece in place. Should it result in too much of a decrease, use a safe sided tri-square file to remove some of the brass. If you want to start over, just remove the brass and adhesive and begin again. In tuning my Rolling blocks (and other assorted guns), this is the method I use and it has worked very well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
590 Posts
Doc... I'm quite aware of the clever tricks that have been used to reload cartridges. I didn't say the idea was entirely successful. Actually though, it was often successful in an unanticipated way, in that the reloaded ammunition might go bang but was almost always in short supply and far inferior to the factory made variety. The Mahdists captured a real ammunition factory in Khartoum in 1885 but were still unable to make worthwhile use of it for lack of brass, powder, primers or lead. Wrapping leather around a spent .303 bullet to make it fit in an Egyptian Rolling Block (a trick seen well into the 1920s) wasn't going to give the shooter much chance of hitting anything he actually aimed at. The same can be said for Apache bullets cast in stone bullet moulds. I'd bet that Afgan .577-450 loaded with shredded movie film had fairly inconsistent ballistics. Could 7mm Mauser be reloaded under difficult circumstances? I'm sure it could, but the result was not likely to be very good for more than noisemaking and volley fire. In any case, I strongly suspect that the RBs extreme reliability was its strongest selling point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,761 Posts
Actualy the British used the berdan primer because early experiments with boxer primers didn't turn out well, mainly because of the tolerances in the machinery at the time. (primers backing out)
I find it amusing that Europe uses an American design while we use the British design. I think we came out the winner in that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
226 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok, great info, really appriciate it, now another question. I have recently purchased another Rolling Block rifle, this one was listed as follows: Remington 43 Cal Argentine Rolling Block Rifle. I assumed that it was chambered for the .43 bottle necked round, but having read some on these since my purchase, and I don't have the rifle in my hands yet, I'm now not so sure what I will recieve. I take it from what I have read that the original .43 Spanish round was in fact a bottle neck, I've seen pictures of cartridges that were so listed, and that many of these rifles were converted to take a more straight walled round refered to as the .43 Reformado. The rifle has been refinished (not by the present owner) and I'm not sure when that work was done. I know you folks are going to tell me to make a chamber cast to be certain, but just for initial examination shouldn't it be quite obvious which of the two rounds the rifle is chambered for?
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top