I found a M1867 US Navy carbine here in Europe and I wonder how much it could be worth. Nice condition with excellent bore. Caliber is 50-70 of course. Thanks in advance.
Kind regards and Merry Christmas to all,
I first thing you have to determine if it is an original Navy Carbine or fake.
The caliber of the carbine was 50-45, not 50-70, it is a shorter cartridge.
There should be an anchor stamped on top of the barrel between the rear sight and the receiver, also the serial number is stamped on the left side of the barrel, above the wood line of the forearm in front of the receiver. There also should be P/FCW above a small anchor stamped on the right side of the receiver. The shell extractor should be a small squire stud found on the breech block in front of the firing pin hole. The firing pin should be spring loaded. The top of the receiver tang should be stamped with a 2-line Remington patant dates ending in 1866. There should not be a carbine ring mounted on the left side of the receiver. There should be a sling swivel on the bottom of the barrel band and one mounted to the bottom of the butt stock. The top of the butt plate should be stamped US. If these things are not present the gun could be a fake. Years ago Dixie Gun Works sold the carbine barrels and people were putting carbines together from parts of other rolling block rifles to look like an original carbine. Orginal guns are very scarce Values can range from $1000 - $2500.
Hope this helps.
Both my references state .50-70 caliber for a US Navy Remington Rolling Block Carbine manufactured between 1868 and 1869(Fjestad's Blue Book and Peterson's Standard Catalog of Military Firearms). About 5000 were made. Additionally, about 500 Model 1867 Navy CADET Rifles were made in .50-45. The Carbine had a 23 1/4" single band barrel, the Cadet Rifle had a 32 1/2" two band barrel. Both references mention either a "sling ring" or a "bar and ring" on the left side of the Carbine's frame. I would definitely look at all the above mentioned areas to determine if you have a true carbine or not, but dependent on exact barrel length, I would look at the muzzle crown very closely. Not to many folks who cut down a rifle can make a good rounded crown, and even if done properly, the patina is often different. One of the first things I look at in a nice carbine. Oh, references vary from a low of about $400 up to $2750 for the Cadet Rifle and $3500 for the Navy Carbine, if you can actually find a buyer "at book"!
Oldremguy is spot on. Neither the Blue Book or the Standard Catalog are reliable on this subject.
The original caliber was .50-45 although it is possible that some were bored out to .50-70 when sold as surplus. Many more were rebarrelled in .43 Spanish for sale in Latin America. The easiest way to identify a fake is to look at the breechblock/extractor. An original has a concave surface on the base of the breechblock and a centrally located (6 o'clock) stud extractor. These are very early features and the actions that were used to make the fakes have a flat base on the breechblock and the extractor on the left side of the chamber. The original barrels that were used had to have a flat milled on their underside in order to work with later blackpowder actions.
Dixie was selling both barrels and forends taken off original carbines by Whitney when they modified surplus Navy carbines for Schuyler, Hartley & Graham so that some have original forends with the proper inspector's marks.
My apologies to OldRemGuy. What can I say, in the Navy they call me a F____ Nuke. We live and die by our references. Seems it has bled over into my civilian life, along with no where near enough humility. I stand corrected. Two learned gentlemen have taught me experience trumps unverified reference books. I should have known better as I've caught the Blue Book out before myself.
You may want to get a copy of Richard Hosmer's "the 58 and 50 caliber rifles and carbines of the Springfield Armory 1865-1872. It is a very authorative work on all
50-70s and cadet rifles including RRBs. I can find no reference to 1867 Navy carbines, only cadet rifles. The first reference to 50-70 RRB carbines is the experimental model made at Springfield Armory for the 1870 trials. There were only 313 made for the trials. I suppose it could be an actual remington made carbine, but then it would not be a Navy carbine. Without actual pictures and better descriptions of marking, it is impossibe to authenticate the carbine.
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