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Has anyone reloaded with cast bullets, and if so what mould and load did you use? Thanks.
 

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Cast bullets for the 6,5 mm Carcano ?

Am glad I can help you out, Tedley :). Here is an old thread about your question, at which I just arrived now, while combing the Second Forum:

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WillK
Posted - 06/07/2004 : 10:49:53 AM
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I found this the other day http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000066.5SWED

Looks like it might be a suitable bullet mold for the Carcano. I can't tell from their catalog what diameter they've designed it to cast, but I know you can up the as-cast diameter a bit by adjusting the alloy (adding tin). With a suitable alloy & good lubrication, you should be able to get similar performance from such a cast bullet as from the Hornady .268" bullet, and with it's flat point, it'd probably be a good choice for hunting. The price is certainly right. They're currently out of stock, but I've got my name in to be e-mailed when they become available (I've also asked to be notified when the single cavity 8mm mould would become available- it's out of stock, too). Anyone got one of these?



tbaus
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 12:15:43 AM
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The bullet seems to be a good aspect ratio of length to width. If you can bump it up to .268 it may be a really good bullet. I would like to hear about how things work out. Let us know. Good shootin'...



budda1954
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 02:57:59 AM
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will: the 6.5 swedish mould should cast .001 over what a 6.5wedish is. a 6.5 swedish is SUPPOSED to be .264 so the mould will cast a .265 bullet. a 6.5 carcano is SUPPOSED to be .265, you should get a mould at least .266, ergo that mould probably won't work in your gun, at least not with optimum accuracy. lead bullets should be one to two thousands over what your barrel diameter is after sizing, so you might want to slug your barrel first to see what the bore diameter is. jacketed bullets are made to factory specs to be the same diameter as your barrel, so if you are using .268 diameter bullets this would seem to me that it would cause much higher chamber pressures than recommended. lee does make custom order moulds at reasonable prices, you might want to call them. mark



WillK
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 08:57:03 AM
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Budda1954, I seem to recall from the Google search where I found the link to that site that that particular bullet was supposed to be oversized for the Swede- say .267" or so (kinda like one of the old Lyman molds)- I may have dreamt that up, though. I can't tell from what they've got on their site, because they don't have the bullet drawing like they have for the 8mm bullets. I've got a Lee .312" 185 grain mould, and changing from straight wheelweights to wheelweight + 2% tin increased the bullet diameter .001-.002".



Parashooter
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 12:31:40 PM
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Lyman 266469 is a good bullet for 6.5 Carcano. My mould casts about .268" with linotype and shoots adequately to 100 yards at velocities in the 1700 fps range sized to .266".



266469 can be loaded to nearly duplicate the shape of the military round.



At 100 yards, M41 groups average about 3 MOA and holes show signs of instability.



WillK
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 10:36:51 AM
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Here's a drawing of that special order bullet from Midsouth

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If I'm looking at this correctly, the first band is .265", and those following it are .268". Lyman does produce a lot of different molds, and nice designs, but they're kinda cost prohibitive for me, and I like the ease of casting w/ aluminum blocks. BTW, the "special order" molds are from Lee; Midsouth waits until the have 25 orders for them before placing an order w/ Lee (thus you're getting the benefit of volume ordering). Here's a link descibing its intended use http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/so_moulds_6.5mm_swed.asp



budda1954
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 7:26:49 PM
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like i said, to be sure you really have to slug the barrel. mark



WillK
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 09:56:02 AM
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Budda1954, you're right, in order to have the bullet sized properly for your particular rifle, you would have to slug the bore. I would also like to add this from Dave Emary's article on the Carcano Homepage:

"The primary loading for the cartridge throughout its service was a 162-grain full metal jacket, round nose bullet measuring nominally .267” diameter..."

If the groove diameter of the Carcano was supposed to be .267-.268" as noted in this and other sources, this bullet should work. BTW, I always make it a habit to slug the bore of my C&R rifles. My M91 Mosin Nagant has a .312" groove diameter, and keyholes w/ .308" jacketed bullets, but is very accurate w/ .312" 185 grain cast bullets, reduced loads w/ .313" 100gr SWC's, and Hornady's .312" 150 grain jacketed bullet. My No.1 Mk III* Enfield has a .313" bore, and doesn't shoot worth a crap w/ .311" jacketed bullets or the .312" jacketed bullets, but does very well w/ Hornady's .312 174 grain RN (I attribute that to the long bearing surface).



3line
Posted - 06/12/2004 : 07:42:08 AM
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BTW, the "special order" molds are from Lee; Midsouth waits until the have 25 orders for them before placing an order w/ Lee (thus you're getting the benefit of volume ordering).
The downside of these is that you'll have to wait a while. I've had this mold and the 2 8mm special order molds on backorder from Midsouth since February. I've just about given up on them.



WillK
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 10:02:29 AM
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Just FYI- slugged my M91 TS this morning- minimum groove diameter was .271"; bore diameter .258".
 

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The midsouth mold is good; it is 175 gr and oversized at .269. With gas check and 12 gr of 2400 it shoots about 1" at 50 yards for me.

I've only ever had MISERABLE luck with the Lyman 140 gr.
 

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Previous thread, same pics

Scotty
Posted - 03/27/2005 : 6:55:19 PM
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Has anyone tried the 150 grain 6.5 lyman bullet in the carcano?
Might be a cheap way to get some use out of my 4 carcanos and with reduced load help over come the wonderful sights .
thx, Scotty



Parashooter
Posted - 03/27/2005 : 10:54:39 PM
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I use 266469, one of the Loverin designs. 15 to 20 grains of 4759 works for me.

Same pic as above

100 yard group, 91/41. Triangle is point of aim. OK but not outstanding.

Same pic as above


kywoodwrkr
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 5:07:22 PM
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Scotty,
At one time MidSouth was carrying a nice 6,5mm bullet mould.
It was designed to drop a cast bullet in the .268" range.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/
Select reloading, then lead bullet casting, then special order moulds.
Product number is 006-6.6Swed. Price is advertised as $13.70.
They are expecting a supply from Lee at this time.
FWIW
DaveP
 

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Scotty
Posted - 08/27/2005 : 12:54:44 PM
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I'm in the process of trying sum 135 grain .269 lead bullets in the carcano. Hope to get to the range tomorrow. Scotty

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NebrHogger
Posted - 08/27/2005 : 1:12:42 PM
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I'll be interested to hear your accuracy results. I have a 270 bullet mould but have not cast with it as I need some tin for hardness. Also need some 270 gas checks. I have a custom .269 sizing die & hope to have somne decent group information by 1st snow. If you shoot a 7.35, I have been experimenting with hard cast, gas checked 150 gr 30-30 bullets I resized. SW



Buckshot
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 07:56:24 AM
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........Look like the recent Lee 6 cavity custom done off the Cast Boolits board at Gunloads.com. I hope to be able to cast some up here before too long and try'em in the Swede and M91/38 TS carbine. Rick



Scotty
Posted - 08/28/2005 : 7:22:55 PM
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After 3 targets i ran out of shell.
With 10 grains of sr-4759 and a cottonball seems to be a good load at 100 yards.

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Scotty
Canada
Posted - 08/29/2005 : 1:00:12 PM
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That is the custom Lee 6 gang mold. In the 6.5x55 you cant load them out very far because the bullet is so fat at the front end.They can be loaded out real far in the carcano with its good size throat though.

My 3rd group was very good , and i think with a little more work and moving the sight a bit they will be all in the 10 ring.I find with the carcano lead bullets are the only way to shoot at 100, i had my sight on 400 meters and used a 6 oclock hold on the black,with my loads only going no more then 1300fps it hits dead on if i can remenber how i had the sight on every shot.
I think all in all its a very good showing for a 1917 terni,maybe this will keep the anti carcano people at my club quit for a bit.
With harder bullets going a bit faster maybe this will be good on small critters...

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Scotty/2005829125950_DSC0224780.JPG
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Scotty
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 10:28:45 PM
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After 6 targets this is my best 3 its a 3 inch 10 ring...

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.266 Leadhead bullets

GJD
Posted - 06/18/2006 : 10:43:28 AM
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I have a M91/38 Cav. Carbine in 6.5mm and I really enjoy shooting it. The only problem is that it shoot terribly high with commercial .264 diameter ammo. It shoots like 3 feet high at 50 yards! I already had some .266 diameter Leadheads bullets because I was going to use them for a Vetterli conversion to 6.5 Carcano. I used varrying charges from 8.0 - 9.5 grains of Unique, which is a very fast burning powder. The problem that I ran into when loading the bullets was that they tended to slip down into the powder charge in the case. I was using new brass. They also fell through on most once-fired FNM cases which were originally loaded up with .264 bullets. So I had to "ghetto crimp" the bullets (not having a crimp die) by tapping on the neck of the case with a hammer and then seating the lead bullet or seating it and then tapping the neck. Slightly dinged up the neck but chambered fine.
I only loaded up 20 and all of the round shot right to the point of aim at 50 yards. I was pretty impressed. My rifle shoots great with Hornady loaded ammo w/ the .268 bullet. I figured that I might get some leading because of the slightly undersized bullet, but I didn't.
Has anyone used Leadheads bullets in 6.5x52 Carcano? If so, did you come across any problems loading the bullets? Any suggestion for me? Thanks.

- Sorry for the slight rambling of my post. I didn't get a whole lot of sleep last night.



DMala
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 12:09:46 PM
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I wonder if your resizing die has an expander ball designed for the .268" bullet. Change it to an expander ball for the standard .264" bullets and your should not have problems with an oversized neck.



Scotty
Posted - 06/21/2006 : 3:34:20 PM
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I neck size my carcano brass in a 6.5 japanese Lee loader and seat the bullets with it or my rcbs seater.

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I was at the range last week testing some cast loads in my 1934 M91 long rifle. I used the mid-south mold and 8.6 grains of Unique. @ 50 yards, 3 shots grouped a little larger than a quarter and two shots touched.

No pics. Airdale has had similar results & I got my data from him. SW
 

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NebrHogger
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 7:57:07 PM
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I believe a heavy cast bullet has merit in the gain twist barrel and have experimented with same. As with any other cast bullet accuracy quest, try for a bullet a couple thousandths over bore diameter and make it as hard as you can. ( please pass the tin!) It took me quite a while to scrub the bore shiny with bore paste, but the smooth surface really helped the cast bullets.

Airdale put me onto a special 140 grain .268 bullet mold from Lee, but I tossed the box. If you contact him privately, he can give you the details for ordering it from Lee. It cost around 15 bucks, IIRC. I think it was made for the 6.5 Mannlicher but really works well in my Carcanos.

The Lyman cast bullet manual has loads for the Carcano, and there is quite a variety of light loads with which to experiment. (...)



airdale
Posted - 08/07/2006 : 9:25:40 PM
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The mold Neb is talking about is available from Midsouth Shooters Supply and depending on the alloy you use drops out a .268 dia. bullet between 160-170 grs. You can view the mold at www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000066.5swed
 

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Carcano M 91/38 6.5mm Lead Loads

daryldiane
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 4:45:33 PM
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Went to the zero range (35yrds) today to try some lead loads. Look a bit more promising. Fed well from the brass clips, no pressure signs. Some lead flakes on cleaning patches. 19 grns AA5744 with .267 145 grn gas check. Will try 20grns next time. 18 was starting load in Swedish 6.5.
Lower two shots taken with a fine sight, fore sight just showing in the V, others with a level sight at 6 O’clock. Not sure what happened to the one on the left, looks like it went through at a slant?

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/daryldiane/200747164426_Carcano Zero Lead.JPG small.JPG
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mag
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 5:03:22 PM
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Cast bullets tend to have problems with the Carcano's deep rifling. The rifling tears up the bullet, and it does not ride the bore straight. That is what caused the sideways hole in your target. There are also a few more on your target that are starting to tilt. By the time they get to a target at 100 yards they will be all over the place as the tilt will get worse as the distance increases. Also more velocity will compound the problem. mag



daryldiane
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 5:25:41 PM
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Thanks Mag. Do you think more lube on the bullet will help? Should I use a lower load?
I have a stash of pre war Cupro Nickel cartridges from which I am pulling the heads. still haven't found a good load. Am using Vit N160.



mag
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 8:02:36 PM
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More lub will not make the rifling any shallower, amd your rifle looks to have deep enough rifling to be tearing up your bullet. Lower velocity will be better than what you are getting now, but I do not think you will ever get really good accuracy with cast bullets in that rifle. Of course " good accuracy " is different to different people. You should have better luck with the jacketed bullets. I have no loads for Vit N160. I would start at 36.05 of I-4350 [ slow burning powder ]with that bullet [ about 160 grain ] , that will give you about 2100 fps . The slower powder will let the bullet "ride" the rifling and keep straighter in the bore. mag



Scotty
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 06:21:10 AM
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Maybe your bullets are undersized, I've had very good luck with .269" lead bullets....at 100 yards.The target on the far left was the best i could shoot with iron sights...

Scotty,

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Leadhead
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 1:25:37 PM
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I shoot all lead in my carcano's and find a .270 dia cast 170 gr bullet
to be very deadly out to 200yds on a 10" steel plate. Load is 15grs of 2400.
Denny



NebrHogger
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 1:33:52 PM
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That load makes sense as my best 8X50R load also uses 2400 powder. SW



DMala
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 7:14:37 PM
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Scotty, those are nice groups! Can you provide details on the type of alloy and lube used? Did you get any lead fouling?



airdale
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 8:01:13 PM
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For all you Carcano shooters out there who want to roll their own cast bullets but don't want to buy an expensive mould here is a link to a low cost mould made by Lee that works good in the Carcano and V V 70/87/15's. It drops out a .268-.269 165-170 gr bullet depending on the alloy used. www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000066.5SWED

Also Lee will make a custom sizing die kit in any bullet dia you want that fits in any standard reloading press for $25 plus shipping. I had them make one in .266 and .268 dia. and very pleased with them.


The alloy I use in the above mould is 9 lbs. wheel weights mixed with 1 lb. 50/50 (lead/tin) solder. This is the receipe from the Lyman cast manual for their #2 alloy. Lead solder is hard to find in hardware stores now but I get mine at the Hobby Lobby craft store, it's located in the stained glass section and comes in 1 lb. rolls and cost $4-$5 per roll.


I use standard Hornady 6.5 gas checks and lube the bullets with Lee liquid alox. I just put the bullets in a plastic butter container and apply the alox and tumble the container. I have had no leading with this setup but I keep my velocities below 1500 FPS.



Leadhead
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 9:00:48 PM
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Yea airdale, thats the bullet I use and it works great.
Good in 6.5 jap too.
Denny



daryldiane
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 05:11:31 AM
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Great info guys. Will have to get that mould. In the meantime I'm pulling heads from the old ammo and will give them another go



Scotty
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 09:36:56 AM
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Originally posted by DMala
Scotty, those are nice groups! Can you provide details on the type of alloy and lube used? Did you get any lead fouling?
Video reply...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHvZofzfnU



[email protected]
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 11:36:41 PM
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If interested I have components for sale:

I have 600 6.5mm 160 grain .268 diameter bullets that I purchased and no longer need for sale for $.18 each.

I also have 14 boxes of Prvi Partisan 140 grain loaded ammo for sale that I will sell for $8.50 a box of 20.

I have 91 loaded rounds (Prvi once fired brass) with 31 grains of BLC2 and 120 grain spire point .264 speer bullets I will sell for $35

I have 17 rounds loaded with 160 grain .268 diameter bullets and 28 grains of BLC2 in once fired Prvi brass I will sell for $7.00



Bob V
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 1:43:05 PM
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Mag,
This is the first I have ever heard of deep rifling causing a problem with cast bullets. Most consider it an asset. Can you tell us how you arrived at your conclusion? Also how would deep rifling tip a bullet? It seems that if the bullet were large enough to begin with it would not be able to tip.
 

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jonk
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 11:42:32 AM
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Anyone have experience loading the Midsouth fat 6.5 cast (.269 or so) in Carcanos or Vetterlis? I gave it a shot (haha, literally) with some bullets someone gave me and it did better than any previous attempts with cast bullets in the Carcano, but still not great. Thoughts?



NebrHogger
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 12:03:05 PM
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If these are hard cast, the long bullet should do well with gain twist. 2400 might be a good powder here. SW



jonk
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 12:54:11 PM
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I can go all the way up to pure linotype if I have to.

I tried 2400. 16 gr yielded mediocre results (5" at 50y) but can try a tad more, a tad less. SR 4759 perhaps?



airdale
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 11:42:08 AM
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I use 8.0 - 10.0 grs. Unique with the 170 gr. bullets cast with this mould and the Leadheads 130 gr. bullets. With the Lee mould I use 9 lbs. wheelweights mixed with 1 lb. 50/50 solder.

I haven't checked the velocity on the 170 gr. bullets yet but I still have some left from the last batch I was shooting in the V V 70/87/15's and if I get a chance this week I'll set up the crony and post the results.

Update. I set the crony up and fired a 6 rd. clip of the Midsouth Lee mould bullets and here are the results.

Results were obtained using an 1917 Terni M91 long rifle, Alpha crony 15' from muzzle, 170 gr. .268 dia. gas checked bullet, Rem. standard large rifle primer, 9.0 grs. Unique powder, COL 3.025, and 83F temp.

Avg. = 1255 FPS
ES = 68 FPS
SD = 25.98
 
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