[milprileb]

This seems to have been a comment that lives a gifted life.

Will someone please tell me the basis for this belief?

Yes, I know Redding makes wonderful dies and many pay the
extra money for them over other major makers of dies.

However, when I called Redding and talked to their tech rep on this point, they
did not know why this claim was being made. I called Hornady and asked them
if their dies work brass MORE since there is a belief on the net that Redding dies
work 7.5 Swiss brass less. Hornady told me they could not understand how their
dies would do anything like working brass more. THat they have copies of all
competitors products and as far as FL sizing dies: their dies are no different than
the FL dies that Redding makes. That a Redding and a Hornady FL die function
the same.

One can make an argument that Redding dies produce better ammo than Hornady
or RCBS and maybe they do. I do not know. However the topic I propose to
you all is whether this boards beliefs about working brass of 7.5 Swiss are valid concerning
Redding products.

So, who can explain and defend this Redding die theory. One of you made this claim so
belly up to the bar and explain how you justify this fact.

 

[Buckstopper]

I belive that this is the basis for that claim. The k11 chamber is dimensionally smaller than that of the k31. Most dies are set to size brass so that it will fit either chamber. I believe that Redding and now Hornady have dies which are calibrated for the k31 chamber and that brass sized in those dies won't fit into the k11 chamber. In that regard, the brass is resized less.

This is an excerp from a post by Parashooter illustrating some of the dimensional differences:

 

[USMCsean]

When someone posts pictures like this, I wish I could see what the measurement results would be on an optical comparator.

 

[milprileb]

Buckstopper:

I wish I had thought of that. Yes, that sounds very logical to me.
Thanks for explaining that so well.

Now what does not make sense is I paid $70 for a K31 sets of dies and it made ammo every bit
as accurate as my Lee set did. Like I said in a previous thread: sometimes a hammer is just a hammer.

 

[USMCsean]

Exactly. Especially when the guys at the tech department tell you they are dimensionally the same, then they should have the same result.

 

[schmidt]

Redding Die

HI guys.
I have a K31 and reload for it. I also have both the lee die set and the Redding K31 sizer.
I just now measured both sizers at the sholder area. The Lee came out at .4543". The Redding came out at .471". Thats a big difference to me. My fired cases measure .474".
In sizeing the fired cases, they size easier by far in the Redding.
n.h.schmidt

 

[milprileb]

Mr. Schmidt, with exact same components , loads made on the Lee and loads made on the Redding ......do you see any accuracy gains from Redding?

I got same accuracy when comparing my Hornady to Lee made loads so I am curious of your observations.

Yes, based on your fired brass: it does get worked less with Redding.

 

[Parashooter]

There is no practical difference in accuracy for the simple reason that a properly-resized cartridge's shoulder cone centers the neck and bullet when it encounters the chamber's shoulder cone, regardless of whether the major diameter of the cartridge shoulder is .454" or .471" (assuming the chamber shoulder is the usual ~.475" found in the K31). Cones are like that - it's basic geometry.

There is also little practical case-life difference. A K31-style FL die works the upper body and shoulder less, but either style works the neck about the same (depending on the dies' neck and expander dimensions) and work-hardened cases normally suffer from neck cracks long before fatigue damages the shoulder and forward body. Annealing the neck and shoulder alleviates work-hardening in both areas.

The K31-specific dies are a little easier on the handloader's muscles and produce less elongation (when used with cases last fired in a K31). To some folks, this is worth the added expense, most of us have no problem with the regular dies and use them to load perfectly suitable ammo for 7.5 Swiss arms from the 1889* through the K31.

*Yes, 1911-style dies work for loading the slightly shorter-necked cartridge used in the pre-1911 models - with appropriate charges in the weaker 1889 and the lightweight 1893 and 1897, of course.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I belive that this is the basis for that claim. The k11 chamber is dimensionally smaller than that of the k31. Most dies are set to size brass so that it will fit either chamber. I believe that Redding and now Hornady have dies which are calibrated for the k31 chamber and that brass sized in those dies won't fit into the k11 chamber. In that regard, the brass is resized less.

This is an excerp from a post by Parashooter illustrating some of the dimensional differences:

Redding info on Midway

"Note: Intended for the K31 rifle. Dies for earlier 1911 model rifles may be obtained by contacting Redding, the dies are a custom-order item."

The other die manufacturers do not have this. Apparently Redding thinks there is a difference between the two cases???

 

[böfei]

I have RCBS , Redding and Lee 7.5 swiss dies and an RCBS neck sizer.

The claim to fame on the redding is a wash since it still crushes the neck down to like ,297
I save the shoulder to split the necks....

I say Redding works the brass worse than the lee or RCBS in the place it matters the most the neck.

 

[andiarisaka]

I have to throw my 2 cents worth in. I use the K31 dies made by CH4D, they also make a regular 7.5 Swiss die that gets you closer to unfired size. I also have a very old 7.5 Swiss die made by CH when they were still in CA. I agree with Parashooter, if you make use of the cone by properly sizing. The effort for the old die wasn't a big deal, I have RCBS's largest press. Elongation was a concern, I've read a post on castboolits where a fellow had trouble after his first Lee die full length sizing with OAL of the case. But it was PRVI brass, maybe he just got a slightly overlength lot. I wonder Parashooter, for a time the brass that makes up that cone is semi-plastic, and I know there are lot of K31owners shooting loads that don't even seal the case. How even is the flow of gases and byproducts that force there way through that cone. Wouldn't it contribute to accuracy to have the case wall nearer to the support of the chamber at the beginning of this? I'm going to keep using my CH4D K31 die, the shoulder on a fully sized case mics .469, and I'll just be happy with what I got, as everyone should be with what works for them. I think that slightly fatter shoulder saves me some lead shaving when feeding cast bullets from the magazine, now that contributes to accuracy!

 

[Parashooter]

Those who believe that a close-fitting case body makes a significant contribution to K31 accuracy might consider the results normally obtained with GP11 ammunition, which fits the chamber less-closely than ammo reloaded with about any style sizing die. Few of us can improve on it significantly without using best-quality match-grade bullets.

Low-pressure loads that fail to expand the neck/shoulder are one clue that the bullet normally starts to move forward before the case expands (although crimp, neck tension, bullet weight, and several other factors may affect the sequence). It seems to me that presentation of the bullet to the barrel is primarily controlled by the pre-expansion shoulder cone, especially if the case has been sized for minimum end-play.

Many handloaders get carried away with techniques that may produce significant results in a heavy-barrel precision rifle but have no observable effect when we're loading for a lighter-barreled battle rifle. Time, effort, and money is probably better spent on live-fire practice.

 

[andiarisaka]

True, as I was writing the above I was thinking "the bullet's already gone" in the back of my mind. I don't think precision techniques however are a waste of time in a light barreled battle rifle. Especially not in those fully stocked. The dampening of the barre'ls vibration by all that wood is somewhat like having a heavy barrel. The little things have meant a lot to my Krag rifles. At times I think it seems like I'm ad for CH4D, in a way I am. Their shop is not far from my grandmother's house, and Dave Davidson even knows where it's at. That's a bit more personal than you get with other die makers. Keep up the great info Parashooter, search for a thread titled, "In Parashooter I trust" on castboolits.

 

[H&H]

In my case:

The Redding dies are best for my k31's, RCBS for my 1911's 96/11's

There is a difference in resized cases, so much so that brass run through my redding dies will not fit into the 1911 and 96/11 chambers. Either die will work for the k31 chambers.

If resizing 284 to 7.5x55 (something I used to do, just bought proper headstamped brass after that) for the k31, the Redding dies need alot less force. If resizing down to 1911 or 96/11 chambers, I needed to use the RCBS dies (and ALOT of force--even with sizing wax) to get them down to size.