[Capt.Canuck]

Here are some photos for those interested. It looks like it has a few stories to tell.

It has a nice shiny bore with strong rifling.

As you can see the eagles have been peened, that was a surprise...but other than that the condition was as expected.

Does this indicate it was a Russian capture?

*Any comments or insights are appreciated. I'm here to learn.

TIA.

 

[MauserGuy85]

Where do I start. I hate to be the bearer of bad news... Not sure if you purchased it thinking its all matching German original, rc or whatever.... but this rifle appears to be a hump/renumbered job. The bolt parts have clearly been scrubbed/grinded, renumbered to match the receiver and touched up with what appears to be a bad cold blue touch up. Do you see the absence of the "f" serial suffix on the bolt root that is on your receiver? That same suffix "f" would be on the top of your bolt root right below the serial number if it was a wartime model. Its not there because a font that looks like that is not even remotely available to humpers, unlike number stamp sets which can look pretty close to original looking. The floorplate has been x'd out and also stamped renumbered IMO. The soviets usually electropenciled parts to be "force matched" on rc k98ks. The only x'd out numbers on legit k98k's that Ive seen are depot reworks and post war reworks and this doesnt appear to be that, especially since the eagles are peened in soviet fashion. You have a vz24 front sight hood installed as well which is incorrect for a k98k. To me it looks like someone tried to "pretty up" a peened rc with some scrubbing/renumbering, touching up, qnw triggerguard (unless it won the soviet lottery), putting some late war bands, adding a post was czech stock.....

The stock is interesting though. Most likely a czech post war stock unless its a bcd KM. Could you post up a pic of the right side of the buttstock and of the bolt cutout in the stock? Also any marking on the bottom of the stock near the heel? Any marking on the right side? Maybe its a post war rework, I know barely anything about them.

Now comes the question of what you were told when you purchased it. If you were told and paid good money for a mostly matching German wartime example I would strongly urge you to get your moeny back. If you purchased it as a legit RC "from the importer" example then I would suggest you get your money back cuz its not an RC. If you bought it as shooter and paid a shooter price for it then its all good IMO....

 

[warfire]

Its a postwar rework of some kind. Looks typical of a czech or east german rework. I'm leaning towards a czech rework. The style of the renumbering and the czech style front sight protector indicates a postwar czech or east german rework. We could use a few more pictures of the area around the underside of the butt.

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Hi guys,

Excellent, thank you. Here are a few more photos as requested (bolt cutout coming shortly):

 

[Kursk]

Any markings in the barrel channel?

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Any markings in the barrel channel?

You mean on the stock under the barrel, correct? I haven't stripped the rifle yet so I'm not sure.

 

[MauserGuy85]

Its a postwar rework of some kind. Looks typical of a czech or east german rework. I'm leaning towards a czech rework. The style of the renumbering and the czech style front sight protector indicates a postwar czech or east german rework. We could use a few more pictures of the area around the underside of the butt.

If it was a czech or EG rework, wouldnt there be either rampant lion proofs or "n" or crown proofs on the parts? Receiver "burst star" mark? Plus why would the front band not be matched serial wise if they already went to the trouble of X'ing out the floorplate and renumbering.... Just doesnt make sense IMO. Also, In the EG rework examples Ive seen posted, there doesnt seem to be such shoddy renumbering and lack of real bluing on bolt components.

 

[MauserGuy85]

You mean on the stock under the barrel, correct? I haven't stripped the rifle yet so I'm not sure.

Yes, I think thats what award means... the inner barrel channel

The bolt cutout area is on the right side of the stock where the bolt handle/ball would sit over when the action is locked in battery. Could you post up that pic? Thanks

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Where do I start. I hate to be the bearer of bad news...Now comes the question of what you were told when you purchased it. If you were told and paid good money for a mostly matching German wartime example I would strongly urge you to get your moeny back. If you purchased it as a legit RC "from the importer" example then I would suggest you get your money back cuz its not an RC. If you bought it as shooter and paid a shooter price for it then its all good IMO....

It certainly looks like I may have overpaid on this one, but I'll live. I bought it based on very little information and minimal description out of a big estate collection. On the plus side I also got this from the same source, so things have a way of working out.

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Yes, I think thats what award means... the inner barrel channel

The bolt cutout area is on the right side of the stock where the bolt handle/ball would sit over when the action is locked in battery. Could you post up that pic? Thanks

Here it is:

 

[MauserGuy85]

Well that does it for me on the stock. No proof marks on the outside, distinct Brunn 1 sling cutouts and bolt cutout..... Post war czech stock for me. The stock looks to be in very nice shape so that alone it worth some good money. $225+ if somebody didnt number stamp the barrel channel (legit czech post war stocks are unnumbered). They seem to be highly desireable just for this kind of thing especially since it makes bcd44-45's look the part. Fortunately for us collectors, the distinct czech sling and bolt cutouts plus the absence of the Acceptance stamp are dead giveaways...

Just to be sure, are you positive there are no marking on the underside of the stock from the trigger guard to the buttplate?

Considering what Ive seeing in your bcd.... "humped RC" IMO.

Now that Port contract with matching bayo is a whole different story... You should start a new thread about that one with detailed pics!

 

[anothermiller]

Shoot it.Sorry you may have overpaid on it but that second one is very nice.Who knows, that cz gun probably still has some history to it.As long as its safe to fire, Id enjoy it for what it is now that you already have it.

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Well that does it for me on the stock. No proof marks on the outside, distinct Brunn 1 sling cutouts and bolt cutout..... Post war czech stock for me. The stock looks to be in very nice shape so that alone it worth some good money. $225+ if somebody didnt number stamp the barrel channel (legit czech post war stocks are unnumbered). They seem to be highly desireable just for this kind of thing especially since it makes bcd44-45's look the part. Fortunately for us collectors, the distinct czech sling and bolt cutouts plus the absence of the Acceptance stamp are dead giveaways...

Just to be sure, are you positive there are no marking on the underside of the stock from the trigger guard to the buttplate?

Considering what Ive seeing in your bcd.... "humped RC" IMO.

Nope, there are definitely no markings on the underside of the stock from the trigger guard to buttplate - other than some green paint residue as seen a photo above.

When you say "humped" what does that mean?

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Shoot it.Sorry you may have overpaid on it but that second one is very nice.Who knows, that cz gun probably still has some history to it.As long as its safe to fire, Id enjoy it for what it is now that you already have it.

Well said, that's what I intend to do. No regrets at all. I'll take it to my gunsmith this week and have him check it out.

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Now that Port contract with matching bayo is a whole different story... You should start a new thread about that one with detailed pics!

For sure...I'll work on that tomorrow once I clean up a bit of the surface cosmoline. Besides, I wanted to offer up the ugly duckling first.

 

[MauserGuy85]

Nope, there are definitely no markings on the underside of the stock from the trigger guard to buttplate - other than some green paint residue as seen a photo above.

When you say "humped" what does that mean?

Yup so definately a czech post war stock.

"Humped" means that work on a rifle was performed by an individual or individuals in order for financial gain. "Humpers" grind/restamp/touch up serial numbers, cold blue usually, fake stamp stocks with copies of german proof stamps, etc. They have been around for many many years and they have not let up. It is really hard to con even a seasoned collecter because their work is ussually so bad. The good part is that as they destroy a rifle's value with their crappy techniques that makes our collectable original "un-messed with" rifles grow in value. Matching numbers = more money to be made, hence why they do it. K98ks are extremely collectable and valuable rifles, especially late war guns currently. Humpers destroy the value and collectability of the rifle in turn to sell as something its not and to make a profit.

RC's are commecially "humped" by a company called Mitchell's Mauser's for example. They sand down the stocks, grind down and restamp serials to match, polish the whole bolt (which is a dead giveaway btw), add a line through the "X" stamp to form a "star-like" symbol and they sell these k98ks as matching originals.

The usual rule of thumb with RC's is that either the eagles and swastikas are peened or they are left intact with "X" stamp on the receiver. Of course there are RC examples that seem to have slipped through the cracks without either peening or "X" stamp, but in my experience those 2 configurations are usually the case.

 

[MauserGuy85]

Shoot it.Sorry you may have overpaid on it but that second one is very nice.Who knows, that cz gun probably still has some history to it.As long as its safe to fire, Id enjoy it for what it is now that you already have it.

Its not a czech gun, its still a German ww2 barreled action with fairly certain serial "humping" done to the corresponding parts... somebody put it in post war czech stock in order to look the part of a late war bcd4-45. Unfortunately the humper did not know that an "f" block would surely still have a standard configuration stock (with bolt takedown disc) and not a semi-kriegsmodell variant.

Another test to tell thats its a czech post war stock is to see if it accepts a 12" cleaning rod. Post war czech stocks were not drilled for the rods. Gustloff KM varient stocks were....

Surplus rifles should always be checked by someone for safety reasons to be extra safe, but in my experience I still have not found an unsafe mauser 98. I even shot a ce42 with "horror" bore and im live and kicking. They are one of the safest actions out there that have survived the test of time. A simple 8mm field guage will tell you if its safe to shoot (headspace) and of course one must look down the bore to see if its not plugged or something. Other than the headspace check and clear bore there should be no problems whatsoever. Dont get me wrong though, getting it professionally checked out is also a sound and reccomended idea!

 

[Capt.Canuck]

One more:

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Yup so definately a czech post war stock.

(snip)

Thanks for the detailed analysis MG85, much appreciated.

 

[MauserGuy85]

Thanks for the detailed analysis MG85, much appreciated.

Your welcome, did you try the cleaning rod test just be 100% certain?