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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
as of late I have seen several finns on line that seem, to me, to be restamped on the bolt to match. Looking at three things mainly, style of font, patina, and placement of the numbers. Many of the bolts look scrubbed and shiney where the matching numbers have been applied and do not match in wear/ patina. None of the ones I suspect have matching font, which of course proves nothing if the rifles were rebuilt, but it seemingly unrebuilt rifles I would expect to see matching font.

The point of this post was to bring it to the attention of guys looking online at "matching" rilfes. Scrutinize them well.
 

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Finnish matched or not matched is not an issue for me. Its never a deal breaker if a Finnish rifle is mismatch (bolt included). So these folks seem to be wasting their time - at least with me. Now if they are faking them with the SA stamp..
 

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I would expect Finn bolts NOT to match.
Most of those used were simply re-numbered with the last four numbers on the bolt ball. Differing numbers on the bolts, whether on the ball or on the long axis, were complete non-issues for the Finns.
Pat
 

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It's the non-Finns I worry about.
But 'fresh' stamping on any of them is possible.

Most people I see at the range with Mosins swear that their refurbs are all original......because of the matching numbers.
I don't argue.
 

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Finnish bolts match- early guns the whole serial on the bolt flat and later the last 3 or 4 on the bolt knob. Yes there could be line outs or grinds of old numbers but bolts should match. It was the only part that was vital to match.
 

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as of late I have seen several finns on line that seem, to me, to be restamped on the bolt to match. Looking at three things mainly, style of font, patina, and placement of the numbers. Many of the bolts look scrubbed and shiney where the matching numbers have been applied and do not match in wear/ patina. None of the ones I suspect have matching font, which of course proves nothing if the rifles were rebuilt, but it seemingly unrebuilt rifles I would expect to see matching font.

The point of this post was to bring it to the attention of guys looking online at "matching" rilfes. Scrutinize them well.
If you start worrying about fonts and restamps on Finnish rifles you are wasting your time because most of the ones I see and buy are exactly what you are warning about! Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No zeebill I don't worry about the fonts so much with finns, with k98's it is a different story though. When a rifle looks very used or at least moderately used and the bolt looks freshly ground where it is numbered I get suspicious. Finns have become very popular in the last few years. Matching does bring much more, I have seen up to 50% more. So for some it is worth the small effort to re number to make an extra 100 bucks or more.
Post some examples of yours.
 

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Finn renumbers are the norm - they didn't make bolt bodies so every one is a re-number. Many of them look like they are shiny near the renumber sight - because they were ground and restamped. They might not have any patina. I have some that look like they were done yesterday. Now if you are saying looks like harbor freight restamping, this is different and please post pictures of that. But most Finns come with matching bolts anyway and not sure the value in finding non-matching ones and humping them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Finn renumbers are the norm - they didn't make bolt bodies so every one is a re-number. Many of them look like they are shiny near the renumber sight - because they were ground and restamped. They might not have any patina. I have some that look like they were done yesterday. Now if you are saying looks like harbor freight restamping, this is different and please post pictures of that. But most Finns come with matching bolts anyway and not sure the value in finding non-matching ones and humping them.
I am aware of all of this, I am not a newcomer to the game. I have not seen many that I suspect of being re numbered but I have seen a few I suspected highly. Like you said "most finns come with matching bolts" I have had two unissued 44 tikka 91/30's that were both bolt mismatched. Would have been real easy to line them out and restamp them. The ones I suspected just had the look of being done yesterday but the rifle showed years of use. Could have been done by the finns just before they sold/stored them, who knows. Here is one that is not stamped as it should be and no where near the font used for the time period. The numbers on the side of the bolt , instead of the knob, look like the numbers put on the receiver by the importer.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=416457196
I had another one but can't find it where the knob was ground down and restamped but can't find it.
 

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Over the years we have many variations of Finn-stamped serials on the the bolt body and the rib. I have handled some rifles that were, without a doubt, Finn-stamped, even though the font looked very different. I finally arrived at the conclusion that the Finns used whatever dies were handy, and that if a unit armorer had to swap a bolt, he probably checked it for fit, ground the old number, stamped a new serial with the dies he had, and sent it on its way.

One thing I keep in mind about Finn Mosins is that a good many were serviced in some form or fashion before being put in storage (and later sold off as surplus). This is the reason we so a lot of M27s that are really pristine, even though the barrelled action probably saw significant usage during the Winter War and Continuation War.

I haven't seen any glaringly obvious fake [SA] marks, but then I haven't really been looking for Finns that much these past few years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
What you guys don't seem to get is that I have seen very few but it can happen, especially with the prices going up. 800 for a for an antique finn, if mismathced it would not been anywhere near that. Re numbering has been going on in the K98 world for years, most are easy to spot some are not. You guys that keep saying this does not happen with finns are just sticking your heads in the sand. I have not seen many that I suspect were re numbered, only a handful if that.
 

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What you guys don't seem to get is that I have seen very few but it can happen, especially with the prices going up. 800 for a for an antique finn, if mismathced it would not been anywhere near that. Re numbering has been going on in the K98 world for years, most are easy to spot some are not. You guys that keep saying this does not happen with finns are just sticking your heads in the sand. I have not seen many that I suspect were re numbered, only a handful if that.
I see what you are saying about the auction. It should be on the bolt ball and the font it funny. Possibly authentic, but suspicious.
 

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39's and wartime 91's are knobs. Earlier are bolt flats generally.
 
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