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KVL
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Posted - 11/17/2006 : 11:51:50 PM
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I believe that our troops over in Grenada during Operation Urgent Fury, 1983, captured a number of Czechslovakian weapons. Does anyone know the types, and did anyone bring any back with them to the States?

riff_raff
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Posted - 11/18/2006 : 4:51:39 PM
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I believe they were VZ52 rifles. I don't know if any were brought back.


marysdad
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USA
808 Posts
Posted - 11/18/2006 : 7:53:22 PM
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There were VZ-52's taken, around 1,000 of them. There were more Mosins than anything else. I have documentation of the types and quantities, along with some photos. There was a book (actually, more like a pamphlet):

Sylvia, Stephen W. & O’Donnell, Michael J. (1984) Guns of Grenada. Moss Publications, Orange, Virginia, USA. 40 pp. A pictorial and statistical accounting of guns seized during the 1983 U.S. invasion of Grenada.

I don't imagine that there were a lot of copies printed, however, I have one. I'm away from my library visiting family for the Thanksgiving holiday, but would be happy to send you the tabulation of types and quantities when I return. E-me if you are interested and that will serve as a reminder for me once I'm back home.

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Mauper
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USA
136 Posts
Posted - 11/19/2006 : 10:57:17 PM
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Picked up a VZ52 in new condition about 12 years ago in x39 cal. Story goes it a one of the bring-backs. No import marking..


ammolab
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
1337 Posts
Posted - 11/22/2006 : 11:33:32 PM
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Should be marked VZ 52/57 in that caliber and those "non import" guns were smuggled in from Canada with the Grenada story as a smokescreen.


marysdad
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

USA
808 Posts
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 9:56:26 PM
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I stand corrected, the SKS was most numerous, followed by the Mosin-Nagant. Here is the tabulation, taken from Dept. of Defense records as of November 1983. It was stated that additional caches of weapons and ammunition were still turning up:

4,074 SKS
2,432 Mosin-Nagant (M1944)
1,626 Soviet AK-47
1,120 Czech Model 52
300 Misc. Sidearms
300 Shotguns
180 Soviet M1945 Submachine Gun
58 Enfield Rifle
55 M23 Submachine Gun
32 N-3A1 Submachine Gun (M3A1?)
31 .22 Caliber Rifles
17 Sten Mark 2
7 Sterling Submachine Gun
6 M-16
3 Mk-3 (?)
2 Bren Rifle

There were 5.5 million rounds small arms ammunition reported siezed
 

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Interesting. I wonder what the DIA "experts" miss-identified as:

180 Soviet M1945 Submachine Gun (?)
32 N-3A1 Submachine Gun (?)
3 Mk-3 (?)
2 Bren Rifle (?)

None of these ID's are accurate.
 

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A friend was in the 82nd during Grenada

He said that when they got back to Bragg a memo went around that roughly said the following:

We know you brought back stuff you should not have. There will be a 30 day grace period, play safely. In 30 days there will be an amnesty day where any unarthorized items may be turned in with no questions asked. After that day you will be prosecuted if found with contraband.

He mentioned a couple ranges were set aside for plinking. When I asked what he turned in he replied: A totally stripped AK receiver.
 

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Interesting. I wonder what the DIA "experts" miss-identified as:

180 Soviet M1945 Submachine Gun (?)
32 N-3A1 Submachine Gun (?)
3 Mk-3 (?)
2 Bren Rifle (?)

None of these ID's are accurate.
I think that the "M1945" subgun is actually the PPS43, the N-3A1 is really the M-3A1 (they just screwed up a letter) the Mk-3 is really the Sten or Sterling, and the Bren rifle is really the Bren machine gun.
 

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Was just rereading this post and was curious if the Czech VZ52 rifles were in 7.62x45 or 7.62x39 chambering. If in '45' chambering, I wonder what happened to all the ammunition-too bad I couldn't find THAT cache!
 

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Was just rereading this post and was curious if the Czech VZ52 rifles were in 7.62x45 or 7.62x39 chambering. If in '45' chambering, I wonder what happened to all the ammunition-too bad I couldn't find THAT cache!
They were Vz52s in x45. Most were as new from rearsenal and had the "hot blue" treatment and shellacing similar to the RC K98s, the M44 mosins were the same but I didn't see a single matching bolt on the M44s out of about 70 or so I looked at. The M44s were still unfired so I don't know when the bolts got mixed up.
 

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They were Vz52s in x45. Most were as new from rearsenal and had the "hot blue" treatment and shellacing similar to the RC K98s, the M44 mosins were the same but I didn't see a single matching bolt on the M44s out of about 70 or so I looked at. The M44s were still unfired so I don't know when the bolts got mixed up.

So the vz52s were refurbished? What were the origins of the Mosins that you looked over? Soviet? Any non-Soviet?
 

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Answer

Say, after all these years, has anyone ever figured out why we invaded Grenada in the first place? :confused:
3 reasons:

1. To rescue the American medical students there.
2. To stop Cuban expansion in the Caribbean.
3. To send a message to communist regimes
everywhere: "Knock this B.S. off!"


Robert
 

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The Czech weapons from Grenada were brought back to the US, cleaned up and put into storage. This is per a friend in MI that participated in the process.
 

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All Soviet.

I've heard that some of the Mosins found in Grenada may have been Chinese Type 53s. I also recall seeing a page somewhere about a Polish Mosin that came from Grenada, but I don't know where, I think it was ebay. That is, if my memory is accurate.
 
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