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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of our sponsors about a year or so ago sold a Lebel rifle with Afghanistan capture papers and it
sold for a huge sum considering what it was and condition and being mis matched.

There are a lot of old pre 1898 dated weapons that have been brought back from Afghanistan by troops and it
was legal to do so.

All one had to do is go to JAG, get the clearance and a document of what the weapon was, go the the Provost Marshall for customs clearance and back to JAG for a release paper and then head to the APO and mail the weapon back. Those are hardly capture papers in the sense that collectors glow about for VN war or WWII.

It is merely clearance papers to ship and import the weapon into USA. No war stories, no glory: just shipping authorizations.

And where did that troop (like myself) get the weapon? Right off the native dealers who sell them (make them),copy them, fake them or even sell an original. No blood or war stories involved for the most part. Those that I saw down range captured in arms caches that were pre 1898 were all relilcs in terrible condition. Those sold at the bazaars on bases and in down town Kabul are all cleaned up and sold for the soldier market of old souvenier rifles.

So, if you come across a rifle and its got AFGHAN capture papers: its not capture papers, only tells you it did come out of Afghanistan by a soldier and thats that.

Now, if that constitutes provenance in your mind for a collector type value beyond the value of the weapon itself: its your money .

The only battle fought by me on that Lebel I brought back with "Papers of Provenance" was the arm wresting of the dealer down at Chicken Street in Kabul in a dreary cold shop with a oil lamp for light and his wanting $300 for it and I paying $180 for it and walking out with it for that price. Knowing full well: I paid too much for it as any Afghan that finally agrees to your price is still happy to screw you and probably only wanted $100 for it if the truth be known. Of course: one never gets the truth from an Afghan merchant.

But...I got my capture papers, took only ten minutes at PMO and JAG.
 

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Excellent first-hand information. Thanks for posting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Zam Pilot: I probably should have worded this differently as the sponsor was probably repeating what the GI told him : that the papers were the capture papers. The fault with
misleading a buyer I do not believe was the sponsor who is a civilian and prone to assuming the GI knows what he is talking about. The Lebel was listed as a consignment sale so the
dealer merely repeated the info relayed by the seller.

But if the sponsor had read the paper work: then he was blowing smoke to make a sale and he did sell that Lebel for a high end price doing it with that technique.

However, my point is Capture Papers and this notion of Provenance has a new meaning (to my value system) for anything coming out of Afghanistan. They are import paperwork and
not something that I would attach great historical significance to and plop down mega bucks for a rifle with such paper work.

 

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"capture papers" have always been this, and regardless it has always added some value, IMO the value it adds is best left to the buyer... Some captures have been taken in combat, but others have been "found", bought, traded, etc... and then brought back. It is one reason I prefer to call them bring backs and not captures.
 

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"capture papers" have always been this, and regardless it has always added some value, IMO the value it adds is best left to the buyer... Some captures have been taken in combat, but others have been "found", bought, traded, etc... and then brought back. It is one reason I prefer to call them bring backs and not captures.
+1


a bringback k98 for example, might have been a supply depot clerks he brought back after trading some cigarettes for it to someone who won the rifle in a card game from a guy who found it in an abandoned bunker.
 

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milprileb, those days are no longer. Now we cannot ship any centerfire arms, no matter how old. I was a Eggers a few months ago, hoping they'd have a decent Snider or Martini-Henry, but the dealer knew the rules, too, and saw no reason to carry anything that his customers couldn't send home. Now only muzzle-loaders can be shipped back, and the selection the dealer had were so tainted and suspect I dared not even consider the $350+ he was asking (and he wasn't budging).

I did manage to acquire a couple stahlhelms from him, and if I could get back up there, he has a couple M1907 bayonets (for the No1 MkIII) I'd look at again. However, I'm due to return to CONUS soon, so I doubt I'll get back to Kabul.
 

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This makes me so angry. If they were to draw the line at full auto's or live explosives I could understand. Muzzle loaders only? Disgusting. Who can we write to reverse this policy?
 

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This makes me so angry. If they were to draw the line at full auto's or live explosives I could understand. Muzzle loaders only? Disgusting. Who can we write to reverse this policy?
Ultimately, it originates at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave - and you'll get it changed by changing out the occupant...
 
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