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Discussion Starter #1
I understand that the J/K serial # prefix's help determine the period when production ended in 40 and then started up again post war, but can anyone determine for the K range what serial # range is mostly pre and which #'s are made following the liberation?

Thanks!
Scott
 

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Serial Ranges

According to observed guns in original condition, mostly war trophies. It seems that ManuFrance was making the K series and they crapped out about K 30,000, MAS was making the L series at the same time, and the highest Juin 1940 is L 35XX. Upon Lieration, they started where they left off, when they began official production again, there are some blank and 3 digit guns made immediately after the Germans left town, but correspondents in France have reported guns just above the range cited above as being dated 1944-45.

There are darned few in the US from this range, that are not totally rebuilt in the 60's, most are pre war, or Century Arms. The guns from 1945 to 1950 are hard to find here, in original configuration.....

The determining factor is the configuration of the gun, and certain cuts on the receiver, and all matching numbers and wood of the correct model...

Dale
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks again Vonmazur for your information. Is there any online source that explains the different modifications by part from pre and post war models?

Much appreciated!
 

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Le Differance...

Right off hand, I think we had this informaton on the old board......I will do it from memory here.

The receiver is not cut thru in front of the rear sight axle pin.
The bolt does not have the later model firing pin retainer, unless made in late 39,or later, the French did field modification of this part, and milled the recievers to mate with the new part.
The middle and upper bands are different from the later guns.

The Middle band is like an Enfield with a hinge and has no ring, rather a bar on the side, and a loop on the bottom.

The upper band is a casting, and has no tunnel for the front sight, the stacking pin is threaded and screwed into the upper band, and pinned to prevent rotation.

The rear sight is grooved laterally, and engages a downward protruding tab on the cursor which moves for and aft for range adjustment.

The Floor Plate, and Trigger Guard are forgings and milled into shape, the Follower is not cut to stop the bolt from closing on an empty magazine.

The Front Sight is dovetailed into the base milled on the Barrel, the post war method was to weld the sight, base and all, on the barrel

Pre War guns all seem to have Walnut Stocks, cut for the different bands, and the contour of the Butt Stock is somewhat different from the post war guns, which have mainly Beechwood Furniture. I have not seen any pre war original guns with Beechwood...

I am sure Kelt will post any corrections and additions to this ad hoc list....

Dale
 

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Were the post-Liberation "K"s made by ManuFrance, and so marked? The only high numbered examples that are in my notes have all been reworked, with the receiver ring markings either wiped or only the "E" evident. [Two wiped, one "E"]
 

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Le Manu

Were the post-Liberation "K"s made by ManuFrance, and so marked? The only high numbered examples that are in my notes have all been reworked, with the receiver ring markings either wiped or only the "E" evident. [Two wiped, one "E"]
As far as I can tell, MAS took up where Le Manu left off, and used up the pre war/early war numbers. I have not seen any of the late war guns with MF on them, this does not mean that such weapons do not exist, just that I have not seen or heard of one. Most likely if any of the MF receivers were still extant in 1944, MAS would have used them, but since this was a time of chaos, and the records are scant or non existant, so I guess we have to examine existing guns to make some kind of determination about these weapons...I believe that ManuFrance was making other guns in 1945, and MAT apparently was also busy with other weapons, so MAS made the Mle 36 Rifles after 1944....

Dale
 

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Manufrance (MF) did not manufacture receivers, MF built rifles from parts made available from various sources, with receivers supplied by MAS.

here you can find pictures of both pre and post war parts:
http://armesfrancaises.free.fr/FR MAS 36.html

There are some erroneous comments, but most of the time, the pictures are self explanatory.

As an example it is said that the prewar rifles had the front sight dovetailed onto a base welded to the barrel when in fact that base was forged with the barrel like on the Berthiers and Lebels.

Have to make it short tonight, the French team has just kicked out New Zealand from the Rugby world cup and it is time to celebrate!

kelt
 

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They didn't exactly kick them out,Kelt.That last french try was scored from a forward pass,and should not have been awarded.However,yes on the day the french team did play better and the All Blacks did not play to their potential,so they did not really deserve to win.
 

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They didn't exactly kick them out,Kelt.That last french try was scored from a forward pass,and should not have been awarded.However,yes on the day the french team did play better and the All Blacks did not play to their potential,so they did not really deserve to win.

I noticed that new trend, to let the game go if a flat pass or even a slight forward pass is made as long as it doesn't give an obvious advantage to the team, That trend comes from the South East Countries by the way!
http://www.rugbyheaven.co.nz/videoplayer/videoplayer/115852a25144.html

There was not objection from the three other Judges on the validity of the 2nd French try, including the video judge who could see the game from several angles, the NewZeland team did not object either.

The young Referee (28) a Briton overlooked several faults, agreed, but from both side and I don't think that the outcome would have been any different if he had acted on everyone of them, the French team played a better rugby overall than the NewZeland team.


kelt
 

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Rugby Match!

Guys: France v Great Britain is upcoming on the Satellite Dish....according to my programing guide, US$29,95....no refunds....I think that I will pass, but maybe Kelt can convince me it is the match of the year.....

Dale
 

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Dale,

French and British TV network will air it live for free at 2PM your time, if you have a satellite dish may be you can get it for free!

It should be an interesting game to watch, the two teams know each other well, and at the last world cup in 2003 in the semi final in Australia the UK won 24 to 7 ousting the French.
The French team is looking forward to return the favor this year.

kelt
 

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I saw some of the match this morning as I was doing a job at my sisters place,the French were ousted (again) by the English,it was not really much of a game but the Brits were clearly the better side and they will go on to the final.
 
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