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Pre/Post War Mannlicher Schoenauer - Pics, Q & A

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Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=191533
Printed on: 09/10/2007

Topic:



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Topic author: Finn Collector
Subject: Pre/Post War Mannlicher Schoenauer - Pics, Q & A
Posted on: 10/30/2006 9:29:21 PM
Message:


The purpose of this topic is to gather as much data and showcase Pre-War Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles and cartridges.

Please feel free to post pictures, data or anthing else on the topic that you wish to share.

Your time and interest is most appreciated

Thanks,

Kevin



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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 10/30/2006 9:35:18 PM
Message:

Here are a few photos (with explanation coming) from Don S.

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Reply author: Don S
Replied on: 10/30/2006 11:01:30 PM
Message:

Top rifle is a Model 1903 in 6.5x54. It has a 4x Kahles scope with "Vienna" tunnel mounts. Bottom rifle is a Model 1908 in 8x56. It has a 4x Oigee scope with factory mounts (numbered to gun). Both were built prior to 1924. I have not taken them down to determine year of build.


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 10/30/2006 11:05:44 PM
Message:

Here are a few pics of one known as the High Velocity model.
Caliber is 8x60s Magnum
Pre-War Pecar Scope
Manufactured 1939

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Reply author: DENNIS B
Replied on: 11/02/2006 10:25:00 AM
Message:

Nice Mannlichers, I found a Model 1910 chambered for 9.5x57 that was built by Alex Henry in Scotland in 1913, at a gun show this spring. I havent had a chance to shoot it yet, I was in the hospital all summer.I'm going to try to get it out before deer season. Dennis


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 11/02/2006 10:35:36 AM
Message:


quote:
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Originally posted by DENNIS B

Nice Mannlichers, I found a Model 1910 chambered for 9.5x57 that was built by Alex Henry in Scotland in 1913, at a gun show this spring. I havent had a chance to shoot it yet, I was in the hospital all summer.I'm going to try to get it out before deer season. Dennis

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please post some pics if you can!


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Reply author: dnovo
Replied on: 11/03/2006 08:55:05 AM
Message:

I will upload a couple of neat and unusal pre-WWI MS as soon as I get my camera back, hopefully in a few days. Both are quite unusual: The first is a Holland & Holland built by them in the very early 1900s using a 1903 MS commercial action in a 400/375 H&H Belted, the predecessor to the famed 375 H&H and the first ever 'belted' cartridge. It uses the H&H takedown style which is distinct from the one used in most commmercial MS rifles. The second is a John Rigby built 1906 MS action in 9X56MS, also a takedown, but using the same method as MS did on its own rifles. The MS action was briefly popular in England before the "Great War" and lost out in popularity to the Mauser Oberndorf actions Rigby imported for use in the British gun trade. The two I own are fairly rare on this side of the Pond and I will try to get some good shots up for you soon. Dave


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 11/03/2006 1:44:50 PM
Message:


quote:
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Originally posted by dnovo

I will upload a couple of neat and unusal pre-WWI MS as soon as I get my camera back, hopefully in a few days. Both are quite unusual: The first is a Holland & Holland built by them in the very early 1900s using a 1903 MS commercial action in a 400/375 H&H Belted, the predecessor to the famed 375 H&H and the first ever 'belted' cartridge. It uses the H&H takedown style which is distinct from the one used in most commmercial MS rifles. The second is a John Rigby built 1906 MS action in 9X56MS, also a takedown, but using the same method as MS did on its own rifles. The MS action was briefly popular in England before the "Great War" and lost out in popularity to the Mauser Oberndorf actions Rigby imported for use in the British gun trade. The two I own are fairly rare on this side of the Pond and I will try to get some good shots up for you soon. Dave

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I cant wait!


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Reply author: Don S
Replied on: 11/05/2006 12:26:24 PM
Message:

Like Kevin, I can't wait to see pics of these 2 rifles. On my want list is an original pre-war British piece built on a commercial Mauser magnum action.


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Reply author: jiminthecorner
Replied on: 11/25/2006 11:46:43 AM
Message:

Dennis B, I too had a 1910 in 9.5x57,(375 express as Brits called it) It was a great shooter BUT it kicked like a @#$^#@! MULE! If you had any problems in hospital with your shoulder be careful. I traded another MS collector and stick with my 1903 which knocks our big Canadian Whitetails over with aplomb!


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Reply author: Lone Star
Replied on: 12/13/2006 6:39:36 PM
Message:

I very much enjoyed the above photos! Thanks.

Lone Star


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 12/14/2006 01:18:29 AM
Message:


quote:
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Originally posted by Lone Star

I very much enjoyed the above photos! Thanks.

Lone Star

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Thank you Lone Star for stopping by. I hope to grow the data/knowledge base for these and other interesting rifles over time.

Thanks again.


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 07/22/2007 01:35:48 AM
Message:

Here is a 1908 Model in 8x56. This paticular arm was made in 1929 and has a 4x Hensoldt Zeil Dialyt mounted and standard 100 / 300 meter folding rear site.



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Reply author: Don S
Replied on: 07/22/2007 07:54:09 AM
Message:

Kevin: Where did you get the 1929 build date? Your photos show the early round button bolt release which I understood were only used up to 1924.


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 07/22/2007 09:59:09 AM
Message:


quote:
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Originally posted by Don S

Kevin: Where did you get the 1929 build date? Your photos show the early round button bolt release which I understood were only used up to 1924.

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Don,

Good question. I hope I am right but I disasembled the rifle and found the following on the bottom:

19 86.29

There was also a 15 by itself.

Question Don; do you have any idea where I could find a "key" for the rear windage on the claw mount?

Thoughts?


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Reply author: Don S
Replied on: 07/22/2007 11:16:27 AM
Message:

There is some confusion when it comes to dating MS's, but I would lean towards 1915. Maybe someone else has an opinion on this. My windage key is a pair of pliers with tape on the jaws.


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 07/22/2007 12:23:40 PM
Message:


quote:
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Originally posted by Don S

There is some confusion when it comes to dating MS's, but I would lean towards 1915. Maybe someone else has an opinion on this. My windage key is a pair of pliers with tape on the jaws.

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Heh... Yep, the ole pliers and tape trick... . I am trying to find possible a clock key that will fit it.


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Reply author: llsierra
Replied on: 08/12/2007 3:46:19 PM
Message:

Dating Mannlicher-Schoenauers is relatively simple.

On a pre-WWII model (M1903, M1905, M1908, M1910, M1924, M1925) remove the barreled action from the stock and look on the belly of the chamber. There you will find a six or seven digit number in the following format 1234.19 That defines the barreled action as number 1234 passed through the Vienna Proof House in the year 1919. The German wartime production Mannlicher-Schoenauers are marked "Made in Germany" on the receiver ring and have separate numbers under the chamber defining number through the proof house and a four digit year as in 1939 (although I have only seen one of these) (Also marked Waffenfabrik Steyr on the left receiver side)

On Post WWII Mannlicher-Schoenauers the YEAR of manufacture/proof is stamped on the left side of the barrel and the receiver in a six character string. The first four characters are proofs, and the last two are the year, as in 52 = 1952 or 66 - 1966.

The same proof and date system was used on the Steyr-Mannlichers until approximately 1976 when Austria switched to a three letter alphabetical coding system for what appears to be the date.

The photo is a 1939 "Made in Germany" M1903 6.5x54mm carbine.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

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Reply author: llsierra
Replied on: 08/12/2007 4:01:00 PM
Message:

If you are looking for information on Mannlicher-Schoenauers, you might try The Mannlicher Collectors Association. Website is http://www.mannlicher.org/ They publish a quarterly newsletter devoted to Mannlichers and Mannlicher users.

LLS


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Reply author: Finn Collector
Replied on: 08/12/2007 5:38:45 PM
Message:


quote:
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Originally posted by llsierra

If you are looking for information on Mannlicher-Schoenauers, you might try The Mannlicher Collectors Association. Website is http://www.mannlicher.org/ They publish a quarterly newsletter devoted to Mannlichers and Mannlicher users.

LLS

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I was contemplating joining MCA but I sent an email and it went unanswered and the web page has not been updated it appears in a few years.

It sounds like I should just join via US Mail??

PS... Love your 1903 above. Great information as well.

Do you have any High Velocity information you can share? Factory load data??


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Reply author: llsierra
Replied on: 08/14/2007 1:36:04 PM
Message:

Howdy Finn,

Sorry about the website. I do not maintain it myself, and the person that does puts in updates annually. I can be reached at [email protected] Send me your address and I will mail you a membership application. Yep, we still do snail mail and hardcopy.

We have a lot of data on feeding M-S rifles, I am working off and on to create a "Mannlicher Manual" of appropriate reloading data and general Mannlicher interest. I have the original Norma reloading data for their factory ammo of the 1960s, which is great, but uses the older Norma powders. (Cannot buy old N-203 and N-205 anymore) However, I have discovered that the RL powders (also made by Bofors) do cross over to the N series. I use the 156 grain RWS H-mantle for my 6.5x54mm (sometimes the 156 Vulkan or Oryx) and 37.5 gr N-203 or 38.5 gr N-204 each at the same velocity of 2375 out of standard M1903 or MCA carbines. Have not found near the accuracy in the 139-140 grain bullets that I find in the 156-160 gr class. I load for M-S in nearly all calibers except the magnums and 6.5x57mm. Oh, I tried to send a page from the old Norma manual, but it is too large

LLS




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Reply author: llsierra
Replied on: 08/14/2007 1:40:56 PM
Message:


quote:
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Originally posted by jiminthecorner

Dennis B, I too had a 1910 in 9.5x57,(375 express as Brits called it) It was a great shooter BUT it kicked like a @#$^#@! MULE! If you had any problems in hospital with your shoulder be careful. I traded another MS collector and stick with my 1903 which knocks our big Canadian Whitetails over with aplomb!

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Jim,
I wonder if your M1910 is the one I sold off several years ago. It's a full stocked rifle, very much lightened, with a curved brass butt plate that really ate my shoulder. We have a club member in Maine who uses a M1910 for deer, bear and moose, reloads his own, and uses newly manufactured ammo from Kynamco. Me, I like the 6.5x54mm much better!

LLS
Mannlicher Collector


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Reply author: Don S
Replied on: 08/14/2007 8:45:49 PM
Message:

Finally disassembled my 1903 & 1908 rifles (shown in the beginning of this topic) to find out the build dates. The 03 was built in 1920 and the 08 was built in 1928. I guess that kills the theory that the round button bolt release was only used before 1924. Kevin, your 1929 build date must be valid.



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Discussion Starter #2
Mannlicher Schoenauer - Model 1908

Here are a few pics of a Model 1908 MS in 8x56.

Part of the Finn Collector Collection of Pre-War Hunting Arms.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Mannlicher Schoenauer - Pre-War High Velocity Model

Here are a few pics of a Pre-War MS High Velocity Model in 8x60
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Mannlicher Schoenauer - From The Don S. Collection.

Don, Please comment on the following fine rifles from your collection.
 

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Just wondering if this forum is still active.

I just acquired a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5mm full stock carbine made at Steyr in 1901, according to the inscription on the side rail. Engraved, with double set triggers and an ivory bolt knob.

Anyone interested in discussion?

M
 

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Hoping to contact Don S.

I stumbled onto this thread while researching a 1903 Mannlicher I own. It has a factory-mounted Oigee 4x identical to that on the 1908 owned by Don, although the mounting system itself is a bit different--mine has a pincer mount on the objective bell of the scope that mates to a set of ears dovetailed into the barrel just ahead of the action. The rear mount engages a single screw on the left rear bridge. My scope has some issues and needs servicing, which I plan to tackle soon. After studying the pix of Don's 1908, I realized that one of the issues involves a missing part--specifically, the small dial on the aft end of the elevation adjustment dial. What exactly does this small dial do? I'm trying to school myself as much as possible before sending it off for repair. If Don or anyone else can help, I'd sure appreciate it. Also, does anyone know what percentage of MS rifles were factory scoped? I've been watching the online auctions for a while now, and can only recall one prewar gun with this option.
Best,
Malcolm Brooks
 

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hi
i own a mannlicher-shoenauer full stock in 3006 caliber , but without side safety . i wonder what is the date of manufactoring of this rifle? serial number is 15868.
kind regards
dan
 

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I stumbled onto this thread while researching a 1903 Mannlicher I own. It has a factory-mounted Oigee 4x identical to that on the 1908 owned by Don, although the mounting system itself is a bit different--mine has a pincer mount on the objective bell of the scope that mates to a set of ears dovetailed into the barrel just ahead of the action. The rear mount engages a single screw on the left rear bridge. My scope has some issues and needs servicing, which I plan to tackle soon. After studying the pix of Don's 1908, I realized that one of the issues involves a missing part--specifically, the small dial on the aft end of the elevation adjustment dial. What exactly does this small dial do? I'm trying to school myself as much as possible before sending it off for repair. If Don or anyone else can help, I'd sure appreciate it. Also, does anyone know what percentage of MS rifles were factory scoped? I've been watching the online auctions for a while now, and can only recall one prewar gun with this option.
Best,
Malcolm Brooks
Malcolm, you can probably find Don over on the NitroExpress.com Mauser forum or find someone who knows how to contact him.
 

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Some Mannlichers and Mannlicher-Scoenauers from my collection.
A Mannlicher M1895 (Dutch), 6.5x53R / .256 Gibbs Rimmed, converted into a sporter ("bubbaed"?) by George Gibbs of Bristol in 1899. Lyman peep sight.

A M1900 Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 6.5x54 M-Sch /.256 Gibbs rimless, also sporterized by Gibbs. Came to me as a barreled action only, restocked by myself, not yet checkered. Parker-Hale peep sight.

M1903 by Gibbs, 6.5x54 M-Sch, P-.H peep sight, 4x Zeiss Zielvier scope in side mount.

M1910 in 9.5x57 aka .375 rimless NE, P-H peep sight, Zielvier in claw mounts.

M1924 in 30-06, 4x Kahles Heliavier scope in "factory" Vienna-type pincer mounts.

M-S "Magnum" 6.5x68 made in 1968, but marked "Modell 1950"! 6x Hensoldt Diatal scope in claw mounts.
 

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My scope has some issues and needs servicing, which I plan to tackle soon. After studying the pix of Don's 1908, I realized that one of the issues involves a missing part--specifically, the small dial on the aft end of the elevation adjustment dial. What exactly does this small dial do?
If I understand correctly, you are probably talking about a small, knurled screw that goes into the elevation turret. This is common to many old German and Austrian scopes. It is used to lock the elevation adjustment dial in the "sighted in" position.
 

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Picture 8010.jpg my ms-mc 56 in 3006 made in 1958 in very good condition and i got at a very good price with leupold scope mount. 550.00 out the door. a big mouth said out loud it was a 1903 greek milsurp sporterized and only two of use bid on ti. eastbank.
 
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