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Discussion Starter #1
Have we talked about this?

Since I was a kid I always used point shoot on the fly. I still train with it. Maybe a second or three faster. But for up close and personal (within ten feet) I feel it's the only way to go. Pretty good even with my Ruger LCP .380
 

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It’s basic..survival..quickest aimed response ..slower..
practiced pointing shooting 10 feet on body hits..is important.
 

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Get hold of 'The Complete Book of Trick & Fancy Shooting' by Ernie Lind, The Citadel Press, a great book on most of the legendary figures.
In particular, a technique developed by Ed McGivern involves placing a dowel down the barrel, so by stepping forward it is possible to stab at a hole in a paper target about 5 yards away, shoving the end of the dowel through the hole as the hammer falls. Progress to using multiple holes in the target to improve accuracy. Proficiency in stabbing the hole aimed for, leads on to shooting at silhouette targets at longer distances, sans dowel.
 

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I hope this to be a very helpful thread because I took the dive and bought one of the Charter Arms .44spl. Boomers. They are modeled after the "backpacker" conversions Magna-Port made to early Bulldogs back in the Eighties/Nineties by chopping the barrel back to 2", porting them, and removing the front sight altogether. I got swept-in by the nostalgia factor but there is something to point-and-shoot isn't there?
Dave
 

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I was taught point and shoot when I was young , from the hip 5' and under , held close in to the mid line of the body 5' to 10' . My view on point and shoot has evolved over the years , larger cal. point and shoot , small cal. aim . I no longer drink , but in my younger drinking day,s I saw the knife come on top of a small cal. twice , and know of other times it did as well . A .22 ,.25 , .32 and even a 380 is an aim only weapon at close range for me , and a knife the better weapon the closer you are .
 

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In Basic Training, Army, 1967, we were put through a program called "Quick Kill". The purpose being that if you're walking point you may not have time to aim a rifle so you better learn to point and shoot.

The Drill Sargent had us point at an object and hold that position. Then notice that you are not sighting down your arm, you're looking about two inches above your finger, but you are pointing right at the object. The goal was to transfer that principle to a rifle.

We started out with BB guns. An object was thrown up in the air, and you Annie Oakleyed it, aiming by looking two inches above the foresight. You could see the BB and adjust.

We went on to 22s, then finally our M-14s. At the end of the program we were given some time to play with it, and started shooting at coins. I learned well - could hit a dime thrown in the air with my M-14. I was so amazed I've remembered that training all my life.
 

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Dave my bull dog..would not shoot silver tips to point to aim .. (7:00 to lower left Tight groups)
wad cutters point of aim?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
As a youngster and probably many of you too my idols were Chuck Connors, Audie Murphy, Clayton Moore, John Wayne, you know, all those early westerns where the cowboys could just point an shoot.
Me and my BB guns learned how to do that early on.

I would say as North Bender did that starting off with a BB gun is best. I could hit a lizard on the run with my Red Ryder. And after thousands of rounds with my .22 there wasn't much I couldn't hit out 20 yards, cans were the target of choice.
It's gets to be like muscle memory even to this day.
 

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In Basic Training, Army, 1967, we were put through a program called "Quick Kill". The purpose being that if you're walking point you may not have time to aim a rifle so you better learn to point and shoot.

The Drill Sargent had us point at an object and hold that position. Then notice that you are not sighting down your arm, you're looking about two inches above your finger, but you are pointing right at the object. The goal was to transfer that principle to a rifle.

We started out with BB guns. An object was thrown up in the air, and you Annie Oakleyed it, aiming by looking two inches above the foresight. You could see the BB and adjust.

We went on to 22s, then finally our M-14s. At the end of the program we were given some time to play with it, and started shooting at coins. I learned well - could hit a dime thrown in the air with my M-14. I was so amazed I've remembered that training all my life.
NB:

One of the many topics that I plan to post about, sooner or later, are the Daisy Quick Kill BB guns used for training purposes during the Vietnam war. I have two of these very simple, unadorned, lever action BB guns. One is in very slightly used condition with a metal ID plate on the stock (with the name of the US Army base where it was used) and the other is in brand new condition still in the original Daisy factory cardboard box used to ship the guns to the Army.

I don't have one but Daisy sold a commercial version of the Quick Kill rebranded as the “Quick Skill” so as to not offend the moms and dads back in the late ‘60s. Same principles except the kids were taught point-shooting at hand thrown targets, tin cans and such, not enemy silhouette targets.

I have lots of photos, magazine articles, and the original training manuals, all of which I intend to incorporate into the post.

Too much to do never enough time. :cry:
 

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Great information, guys. I, as well as others I'm certain, appreciate it. Wasn't the Israeli film on using the sights though?

DK....my Bulldog shot Underwood, Blazer, and SIG (all SJHP 200gr) to POA. I wasn't able to test anything else because I sent it back to Charter for a timing issue or maybe a new hand. By POA I mean I was hitting that little feller in the top left hand corner of a B27 target at 15yds!

As far as the 44Boomer without the front sight, I sent it back to Charter before even firing it. I couldn't get all the rounds to seat in the cylinder.
 

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"Point", or "Instinctive" shooting is perfectly valid at average pistol engagement distances (7~15')
We were taught "punch shooting" where you "punch out" away from you using the instinctive muscle memory to get the pistol in the right alignment. There was also a technique (now not taught) where you pull the strong arm in close to the waist & push out with the palm of the weak hand well above the lower muzzle.
The idea was to prevent the attacker grabbing the pistol.
At longer distances I'd go with a quick both eyes open sight picture.
 

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NB:

One of the many topics that I plan to post about, sooner or later, are the Daisy Quick Kill BB guns used for training purposes during the Vietnam war. I have two of these very simple, unadorned, lever action BB guns. One is in very slightly used condition with a metal ID plate on the stock (with the name of the US Army base where it was used) and the other is in brand new condition still in the original Daisy factory cardboard box used to ship the guns to the Army.

I don't have one but Daisy sold a commercial version of the Quick Kill rebranded as the “Quick Skill” so as to not offend the moms and dads back in the late ‘60s. Same principles except the kids were taught point-shooting at hand thrown targets, tin cans and such, not enemy silhouette targets.

I have lots of photos, magazine articles, and the original training manuals, all of which I intend to incorporate into the post.

Too much to do never enough time. :cry:
That’s just excellent Richard! I’d love to have one of those BB guns.

”Quick skill” - that’s great.
 

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In Basic Training, Army, 1967, we were put through a program called "Quick Kill". The purpose being that if you're walking point you may not have time to aim a rifle so you better learn to point and shoot.
I remember doing that in basic back in 75 at Ft. Knox, we all walked down on range with our rifles at about waist high, there were pop-up targets on either side of the path we were to stop and point and shoot without shouldering the rifle. except we didn't get any kind of practice, we were just shown what we should do. it was more of familiarization then qualifying.

the other part I remember was low crawling to a MG position while it fired live rounds over out head, to get close to throw a dummy hand grenade.
 

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plonker, showing our age - was also taught for close quarters, to hold the pistol centrally square on and close to the body to minimise an attacker grabbing it.
 

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Thank you for the book idea, AS. At times it surprises me that those kind forum members leaning left know so much about firearms! I am confused, yet appreciative! :confused:

Dave ;)
 

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I remember doing that in basic back in 75 at Ft. Knox, we all walked down on range with our rifles at about waist high, there were pop-up targets on either side of the path we were to stop and point and shoot without shouldering the rifle. except we didn't get any kind of practice, we were just shown what we should do. it was more of familiarization then qualifying.

the other part I remember was low crawling to a MG position while it fired live rounds over out head, to get close to throw a dummy hand grenade.
I went through a similar course when I deployed to VN. After finishing stateside training we got 30 days leave, then reported to Ft Lewis where we went through a week’s training in a “Vietnamese” village they had constructed ( I set off a booby trap and was the brunt of a few jokes). You’d walk through the village and surrounding paths and blast an M-16 on full auto at popup targets. That I’d love to do again.

I think it was pretty standard to crawl under the tracers from a water cooled .30 cal, with half sticks of dynamite going off to move you along. We had an Alaskan Indian in our Basic Training company with false teeth. He was crawling under the barbed wire, tracers overhead, and almost made it to the trench when they touched off a stick next to him that lifted him off the ground and blew his teeth out. He scooped out a handful of mud with the teeth and shoved it all into his face and rolled into the trench - well, maybe you had to be there, that was hilarious.
 

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North Bender ---- I vividly remember crawling through the infiltration course as a 19 year old kid at night with the tracer bullets about 2 feet over our heads (3 feet above the ground) and the 1/2 sticks of dynamite going off in water filled holes as we crawled along. I was mighty glad to roll into the trench at the end of the crawl. I remember the wire being 18" above the ground so it would have been very hard to rise up high enough to be hit by a tracer round. The tracers were 18" above the wire. I still remember all remarks everyone was making from that trench. The holes containing the dynamite were fenced all around so it would have been very hard to crawl into a hole with the 1/2 stick. This was back in 1955 and I think we crawled through the course 4 or 5 times during my less than illustrious military experience.
 

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Thank you for the book idea, AS. At times it surprises me that those kind forum members leaning left know so much about firearms! I am confused, yet appreciative! :confused:

Dave ;)
Not to get political . but if you check what traditional republicans used to stand for, what traditional conservative values are https://www.heritage.org/political-process/report/ten-conservative-principles you will find I'm a bit to the right of them... if you are talking about current republican values, such as ignoring separation of powers such as the recent batch of executive orders that has nothing to do with conservatism at all, violating the principles of free trade and handing out giverment welfare by the trillion .. I am so freaking far right you can't find me, read the link in my sig line. it is why guys like George Will have left the party
 
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