Gunboards Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Silver Bullet Member
sks, tokarev, makarov, combloc
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi
i got the really awesome CD of makarovs. I did not notice (maybe i missed it) a chinese makarov grip of the style I have. I have seen and the cd has the grips with a sheild and stars. mine is like the national symbol of china. this bring back does not have papers but was sold by a dealer as a vn capture prior to 1980. there were no makarovs from china available then, except as a bring back.
i was told these are the military grips and the sheild and stars are police. i am no expert so leave it to those who profess to be.
included is the holster brought back with it. it has one matching magazine and the other is not matching but numbered. i hope you enjoy. feel free to add these pictures to the CD file if you wish.
 

Attachments

·
Platinum Bullet Member
Joined
·
499 Posts
First, thank you for sharing your post. I have never seen a Chinese 59SHI except in photos, however, the grips are certainly going to create a discussion on the forum. They appear to have a gear wheel and strands of wheat. If the grips were put up for a vote, I would choose the shield and stars for the military, and your grips for something else, as Police, or a department of internal goverment. Please remember, my thoughts are only a guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
785 Posts
My job will have me in China again sometime this year and I am going to ask around a little about these grips. Doubt I will find out anything but I' going to try. The three times that I have been there I saw a lot of uniformed people but no hand guns that I rember. I'm sure that asking about firearms or even parts may have some risks.

Have any other forum members had any oportunities to seek out parts in China??
 

·
Platinum Bullet Member
Joined
·
499 Posts
I have a friend who has a contact in China and he inquired about purchasing SHI Grips. Grips are considered to be gun parts and were not availible. Holsters, Magazine pouches, but no parts. And didn't President Clinton, (Slick Willie), stop the importation of military weapons and parts from Russia and China??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
785 Posts
Probably right S-S, just asking about gun parts in China is probably not worth the risk. I do not want to have a run in with the law in China. Had a problem with some documents in Russia one time....not a good situation to be in.

We should never take for granted the freedoms that we enjoy in our great country.
 

·
Silver Bullet Member
sks, tokarev, makarov, combloc
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The only time i have seen these grips have been on vietnam bring back chinese makarovs. apparently most folks have never seen these before, so it is understandable that they dont know what they are. The insignia on the grips is the insignia of the peoples liberation army (PLA) of china. it is on their flag and the entire insignia, exactly as on these grips, is on their cap pins, militaria etc. a quick google check for pla insignia verifies this fact. so this is the military chinese makarov grip, on a military issue chinese makarov.
i can not find any reference in chinese military insignia to the previously misidentifed as military, shield with star chinese grip. i was told 30 years ago that the shield with stars grip was police. But i can not find any reference showing the shield in stars grip. if it is police, then which police or police agency?so this is the mystery. what is the shield with stars grip on some chinese makarovs?
I suggest that lincen and others with contact in china take a picture of the shield with stars grip to china and ask which govt agency uses this insignia. to find this out will be a great contribution.examples of the shield with stars grip are on the CD .
since these military chinese makarovs are not often seen i am glad i could clear up this misunderstanding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
502 Posts
The grips that appear on "SKS Guides" Makarov is defiently PLA {Peoples Libaration Army} as the Chinese chacter appears on the inside star which is the date of the Chinese Revolation that appears on all the PLA insigina from cap badages, flags to aircraft or armour. The only time I have seen these grips were on other Chinese Makarovs that were bring backs from Vietnam. The more common Chinese military Makarovs with the shield in the grips I understand are Police issued, but they could be Chinese security units like the Soviet/Russian KGB/MVD military units. These Chinese Makarovs are very rare due to where they were captured like the North Korean SKS, East German SKS and North Vietnamese SKS which all arrived from in country, Vietnam. If you are going to China check out the various PLA Military museums as I understand they have a great display of military small arms.
"Tex" RHanes
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,884 Posts
There use to be some pics of these grips but unfortunately they got lost during some of the updates. I did some searching around and here's part of a post from the "unofficial Makarov collector" from a few years ago.
"Chinese used two grips. The earlier is the "Eighth, first" star grip. The characters inside the star are eighth, first or August 1, date of the foundimg of the Peoples Army.
This was succeeded by the classic stars in shield, offical symbol of the PRC.
Standard stars are (in my estimation only) made for export, such as ZZ prefix and commercial models."

I was hoping some of the older members here might have saved some of this stuff but apparently not.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,020 Posts
We don't see these grips much. I went to my friend John Moss for his knowledge. I don't know many people who have collected and cataloged all things Makarov like John has. John wrote back that he's having trouble logging in but gave me permission to post his thoughts on the subject:

From John Moss:

"I have only been able to record three Type 59s with this grip - I have owned two of those three (I still have one of them - I sold the other, which came out of Cambodia, some years ago. It was in my original auto pistol collection, and I was not longer collecting so sold it), and the third is from a photo in a Norinco Military Equipment catalog I have.

The grips are absolutely military, as the insignia is that of the PLA (People's Liberation Army) which includes the Army, Navy and Air Force. In fact, I have seen the same insignia on the fuselage of a Chinese-origin MIG 15 in one of the aircraft Museums, San Diego, I seem to recall. The characters inside the Star are the Chinese ideographs for the numbers "81" and represent the date of August 1. August 1st, 1927 which was the founding date of the PLA as the military arm of the Chinese Communist Party. It was originally called the "Chinese Red Army," but the PLA was founded during the Nanchang Uprising, with a rebellion of troops formerly of the KMT Army.

The other well-known grips that have the shield with the same Star Pattern inside it as is found on the Flag of the People's Republic of China, was used by Police and also for pistols exported. Oddly, the two pistols I know of, and now the one referenced on that Forum, came out of SE Asia, two from VN and one from Cambodia. You would think they would have been with the export grip insignia. The so-called police grip is found in the red-orange color plastic, or black plastic. I have one of each in my own collection.

Later, with the pistols made and marked "56" in a triangle and also the Zhong Zhou (ZZ serial number prefix), the grip insignia was changed to essentially the Russian pattern star. Why, I don't know.

The original Type 59s with the PLA grip or the Chinese-Flag pattern (shield and stars) grips were only made for four years, it seems, 1959 thru 1963. The ones made in 1962, if any where (I have not tabulated a single specimen from that year), are rare it seems, and if made at all, it was in very small quantity. It would have been less than 1500 pistols that year. The total for the 4 years represented by the numbers I have tabulated are near 59,000 total pistols, not many, but then the Type 59 was never officially adopted by the PLA as Army Standard. The type 54 (Tokarev) remained the service pistol until replaced early in this century or late in the last by their 0 mm Para caliber pistol, the model number of which escapes my memory right now, and too lazy to go downstairs and look it up.

It is odd that these pistols, the Type 59s from the early years, are marked the way they are, "59 Shi." "Shi" is the phonetic pronunciation of the well-known Sino-Japanese character for type, and is the same word in both Chinese and Japanese, although in the latter it is usually transliterated as "Shih." The normal use of numbers would have dictated that the Model Designation be in Chinese characters, unlike numbers in serial, as the the serial number of the pistol, which are usually expressed in the western style of numbers."
 

·
Silver Bullet Member
sks, tokarev, makarov, combloc
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
what a pleasure to get so many thoughtful and informed responses. i guess that is why we have gunboards; so collectors can provide information and other knowledgable people can add their insights and information. i especially want to thank North Bender and John Moss for getting the information from John Moss. unselfish sharing of information is what i grew up with as a collector but other than here, don't see very much today. i have heard of a couple of other similar chinese military makarovs out there, so keep your eyes open; you never know.
i also have a soviet (ussr) and an east german makarov that also came back as vietnam war trophies. i will try to post those pictures in the near future.
i wish i had a story to go with this makarov, but i do not. and i have too much repect for those who served to make one up.thanks for all the input and happy collecting to all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,470 Posts
I'm eagerly awaiting your photos of your Soviet and E German. I recently sold my E German and a Soviet bringback and a ChiCom. I also have a ChiCom rig with this type of grips. I've previously posted it here, and it is also in Veteran Bringbacks Vol II by Edward Tinker. It was taken by a CAP Marine from an NVA Colonel in charge of an assassination squad.
 

·
Silver Bullet Member
sks, tokarev, makarov, combloc
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
until badash5946 mentioned it, i had no idea there were any books on veteran bringbacks. i found both vol I and II and eagerly await receiving them. i look forward to comparing your vn bring back ChiCom rig makarov also with these grips. thanks for the information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,340 Posts
Here is my 66 ruskie Makerov, along with a 66 Tokerov and a High-Power - All bring backs, the Mak and HP by me in 1970.
The Mak was taken off of an NVA Maj, who no longer had any use for it, in 1969. Bastard deserved to get killed - he couldn't take care of his pistol. It has a rust pitted non matching mag in it.
Sarge
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
Here is my 66 ruskie Makerov, along with a 66 Tokerov and a High-Power - All bring backs, the Mak and HP by me in 1970.
The Mak was taken off of an NVA Maj, who no longer had any use for it, in 1969. Bastard deserved to get killed - he couldn't take care of his pistol. It has a rust pitted non matching mag in it.
Sarge
View attachment 521931
Thanks for posting. That's a great looking Makarov.
 

·
Silver Bullet Member
sks, tokarev, makarov, combloc
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
sarge
great guns and a clear idea of how you got them. did what you needed to. i am puzzled by the browning hi power. the picture makes it look as if the slide is bent downward at the muzzle end. is that just an illusion or is it somehow bent downward? also, i cant tell what kind of hi power. is it a WW II or later or whatever.? as a collector of vn bring backs i find your pictures and the hi power most interesting. thanks for sharing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,340 Posts
It's an optical illusion, I've had the same thing happen with a P.38 photo - NO idea why??? Crooked kamera lenz? :?
The HP is a 1950s mil contrakt pistol. SF had them available for issue. However this one is like NO other Viet Nam bring back you'll ever find. In addition to trophy papers dated Mar 1970 I also have a bill of sale from a gun shop outside Ft Lewis Wn dated Aug 69 for this pistol. I tell everyone that if you're going to war and know what you want for a war trophy - Take it with you! :thumbsup: I also took 2 boxes of 90 gr Super Vel ammo (brought 1 of them home). I carried the HP the entire time in country, with 2 mags of SV hollow points.
I also have 2 SKSs (1 an NVA) an AK 47 and 2 K98k rifles. Papers on all but 1 98k and the AK - which was amnesty registered in 68. Both 98ks came from the vets.
Sarge
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top