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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These guns are very rare, but may just not have been perceived as such, so I think it's quite possible that more "sleepers" might surface:

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Dutchman
Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 8:46:57 PM
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I've had these photos for quite some time so I guess its time to post them. It is a 100% correct school carbine and it does reside in the U.S. Sometimes I forget what I have on the harddrive

I do vaguely recall the story about the rancher and coyote hunting with this.
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foudufoot
Posted - 07/15/2006 : 12:30:09 PM
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It's in great shape too! The Dean posted a few pics on your M94 sticky a while back. Nice to see some different shots of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Photos: Second School Carbine

foudufoot
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 10:20:30 PM
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For those of you who are into numbers...

I passed on a beautiful 1895 OB carbine last week SN 895 with a comb disk and no bore disk. Congratulations to the proud owner!!

But today, I received what I consider to be a Crown Jewel from a very generous board member who wishes to remain anonymous. You may have seen it in Dana Jone's book and on Dutchman's great site. It's S.895, one of the few school carbines in original configuration.
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Anyway, as I was explaining my good fortune to my son Marcus, I pulled out my 1898 CG, another prized possession, and the serial number was....895! Anyway, here they are: Max thought that was a cool coincidence too...
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Dutchman
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 11:17:49 PM
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I can't believe you passed up a 1895 with a 895 serial number and you have these other two s/n 895. Lottery ticket time!

I well remember the night that S.895 was being perused by a bunch of us. It came from Treasure Hunt Arms in Louisiana, MissT. Nobody knew what it was until I dug through Mats Perssons' website listing the many carbine models. Since then quite a few have turned up but this one, S.895 is the only one still in original configuration far as I know. It was a dang good score then and still is. Congratulations!!



USMCsean
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 06:58:37 AM
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Now that is just awesome! I can't believe you passed it up as well, especially with that amazing coincidence of it being numbered 895! You should consider getting it. I don't think there would be another person alive who would have three rifles with the same SN. And the thing I like most about your story, is someone passing along a great weapon to a future, this being you, collector. Keeping the piece in the circle of people who know what it is, and can appreciate the weapon for what it really is. Congrats.


parkerswede
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 10:37:30 AM
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Hi Guys. I'm looking at the photo of the receiver above and the serial number is S.395 (not 895).
There is one other school carbine in its original configuration I know about. Its owned by a guy in Finland.


foudufoot
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 6:06:51 PM
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Thanks Dutchman! I feel VERY fortunate to have it. This is a rare and beautiful piece of history and I feel it belongs to everyone. (but I get to play with it ). How long ago did you "peruse" it? Must have been before Dana Jone's book...

Speaking of Crown Jewels, my son Marcus made a very astute observation; it appears that the rare Karbin m/94-96 pictured in Crown Jewels picture 83 p.53 is actually S.895 with a bent bolt swapped in. There are two telltale gouges in the wood just behind the rear band and on the stock handle that are unnmistakenly those on the S.895 stock.

I would have bid on the 895 OB if I had remembered about the 1898 and wasn't in the throes of buying the school carbine. Now if the proud owner of OB 895 is reading this, please contact me if you would consider a potential trade. I also have a very nice OB 1895 M94 SN 2908 and would consider throwing in something else...


foudufoot
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 6:11:21 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by parkerswede

Hi Guys. I'm looking at the photo of the receiver above and the serial number is S.395 (not 895).
There is one other school carbine in its original configuration I know about. Its owned by a guy in Finland.

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It's 895 parkerswede. Just looks like 395 in the picture. I'm getting older but my eyes are still good..

Theres another school carbine in original configuration in the US too. "The Dean" is the proud owner and he bought it for a song from a farmer who used it to shoot coyotes. Now, THAT is a great story!!



Dutchman
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 6:23:16 PM
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http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/skcarb1.html
Its S.895. Even has the same bend in the sling in front of the lower swivel. And the 9 is slightly higher than the 8, just like in the webpage photo.


swede
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 6:31:59 PM
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So , let me know if I am following you correctly . You have the carbine pictured on page 48 , fig. 71 .

This same carbine is pictured on page 53 , fig. 83 , with a non-matching bent bolt , just as a representative fortress carbine . Obviously this carbine is not in the CG Rifle Factory Museum .

As I understand it , the " publisher " of Crown Jewels mixed up many of the captions on the photos in Dana's book .
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Edited by - swede on 07/14/2006 6:33:54 PM


Dutchman
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 8:56:33 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by swede

So , let me know if I am following you correctly . You have the carbine pictured on page 48 , fig. 71 .
This same carbine is pictured on page 53 , fig. 83 , with a non-matching bent bolt , just as a representative fortress carbine . Obviously this carbine is not in the CG Rifle Factory Museum .

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I does appear to be just that. Same carbine, different bolt. The sling is the give-a-way. Has the same bend on the lower part just ahead of the rear swivel. Not really a big deal as the fortress carbine and school carbine are identical except for the bend bolt handle. Except all the school carbines are dated 1901 and have a S-prefix. Jorma's fortress carbine has an anomolous serial number and is dated 1898. http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/9496.html

Dutchman


jorma
Posted - 07/15/2006 : 11:13:59 AM
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Hello foudufoot, yes I know the Finn who owns that piece, I missed
that one because didn`t know what it was now I know.
jorma
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Discussion thread, conditions and prices

I am adding the following discussion thread because I believe the discussion on appropiate prices and the astute analyses of a given gun can be very instructive for novice collectors...

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Dutchman
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 6:41:29 PM
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Looky what came outta the woodwork this last weekend at a gunshow. Can't reveal who the new owner is or what he paid. The original U.S. owner said to have purchased from Monkey Wards in 1956 for $19.

The handguard is mis-match but all else is stamped matching. The nosepiece is obviously of Husqvarna manufacture. I believe the bolt and all other parts are original to 1898 except the nosepiece.

What do you guys think its worth today?

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Dutchman


MP78
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 7:15:30 PM
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I like it but I don't have a clue to what a couple of deap pocket collectors bidding against each other would be willing to pay for such a nice example. Maybe, 2000.00 dollars. Too bad I couldn't have found a barrel of them at Montgomery Wards for 19.00 each...Jim


kriggevaer
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 8:13:08 PM
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I believe I see a post-'68 barrel extension. I know how memories go (my Dad thinks he remembers buying some guns for me, but he didn't), anyway, if I'm correct, then the previous owner couldn't have bought it at Monkey Wards in 1956. I would have to examine the rifle in person, but I think $2000 would be more than I would pay. Although, as you say Dutchman, you get two people bidding against each other and who knows what it will bring.


kriggevaer
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 8:29:46 PM
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I think we are looking at a pieced together m/95 Kammarkarbin. The stock appears to be black and the comb disk I believe is for a kammarkarbin. If I'm wrong, well slap me silly and call me Suzy!!


foudufoot
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 9:24:54 PM
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I agree with Kriggevear that $2,000 is way high. That nice original 1895 OB M94 went for a little over $1,400 and I think it was more collectible than this one. But I could see someone paying $1,100 for it in a bidding war or to fill a hole in a collection. The mismatched handguard is disappointing but the year and low number make up for it a bit. My guess in today's market: $950.


swede
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 10:58:38 PM
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The GCA of '68 had nothing to do with the barrel extensions . It banned importation of military firearms . Interarms sued BATF over the barrel extension & won in court before 1968 , Therefore , reducing the legal barrel length to 16 inches . So , you see some M-94 carbines with the extensions & some without the extensions . No M-94 carbines came into the US between 1968 & about 1985 or 1986 , when Reagan lifted the ban on military firearms . Most of the M-94's had been surplused by then , to Europe & elsewhere . So , basicly no more M-94's were imported in any quantity . I have a copy of " American Rifleman " dated Aug. 1958 with an add for the Swedish G-33/50 carbine for $29.95 by Hunters Lodge in Alexandria , VA . So , the man could very well have purchased the 1898 dated carbine with muzzle extension in 1956 , or maybe he missed it by a year or two . I am still looking for an earlier dated " American Rifleman " with the carbine adds .

As for the mismatched handguard , that is fairly common on Swedish mausers and would not deter me from buying any Swedish mauser , any more the a mismatched cleaning rod for a M-96 . Handguards were easily broken & either replaced with a new or used ( unmatched ) handguard .

This is NOT a Kammarkarbin, as they have a " K " prefix serial number . Not sure of the meaning of " K.21 " , as there were only 9 cavalry regiments .

There were approximately 6500 M-94's made in the first year of production at Carl Gustaf , which is only half of the 1895 Mauser production of carbines . I see many more Mauser carbines than I see 1898 CG carbines for sale . Both are antiques in the USA & require no paper work . The black stock is just dark walnut ( from age ??? ) & is common on early carbines & rifles . A CG carbine with a 3 digit serial number is very rare , as I only know of 2 others that low . While there are more Mauser carbine known with 3 digit or less serial numbers . This is a very collectable carbine & it is anyone's guess as to what it is worth in todays market . I have no doubts that it would bring near $1500 at auction . Or maybe not !!!! Personally , I would rather have an early Carl Gustaf carbine with low serial number than a low serial number Mauser . Of course , I would take either one or both of them .


swede
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:09:58 PM
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By the way , that $1400 Mauser carbine , #385 did not have the original stock . It was a replacement numbered to match with the later style buttplate angle . This CG 1898 carbine has an original stock .


foudufoot
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 07:37:38 AM

Originally posted by swede

By the way , that $1400 Mauser carbine , #385 did not have the original stock . It was a replacement numbered to match with the later style buttplate angle . This CG 1898 carbine has an original stock.
I stand corrected. I forgot the OB did not have the original stock. You also make a good point about scarcity. The 1898 wins there too and gets extra points for the comb disk and unusual stock color. I have not yet paid over $1,000 for one (except the School) and I bought a 1906, 1914 and 1932 94/14 and an all-matching (including stock, handguard, and firing pin) 1895 M94 (four digit for under $600), all on auction (except the 1906) in the last year. I guess that means that the carbines are now going much higher on auction than I thought. I guess this one could fetch $1,500 on auction then, but $2,000? Doubt it.



Dutchman
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 10:06:31 AM
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Very interesting. My original thought was $1,000 but after a few minutes I thought $1,500 and possibly even more.

I did ask the owner about any stock patch or repair behind the receiver tang indicating a gallery sight was once there but he says no.

As usual, our co-moderator has made accurate and interesting observations. Pretty neat old carbine for being 108 yrs old.

Dutchman


MP78
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 6:32:45 PM
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I guess I'm just a carbine lover. I know that 2 grand is a lot of money but we all have seen what we thought were relatively nice rifles go for far more than anyone thought when two or more guys thought they just had to have them. My pockets aren't that deap and I have to keep an eye out for bargains but I can see it happening...Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The Bad Old Times (or Sporterizing do-it-yourself)

This deserves to be conserved for posteriority:

Dutchman
Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum
Posted - 09/21/2006 : 01:00:05 AM
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I get email :

Hi Dutch..im glad I found link to ya...I bought my first rifle in 11th grade for 29.95 at russles gun shop near Liginier Pa. a whole wall full of m94 sweeds....I picked one and cleaned it admirlingly...well..I read in a rifle magizine how to sportriser hest old milittar rifles...My friend was in machine shop at High school..Well...we remived the ears arund the front site but a ramp sight on at a gunsmith shop cut the band that held the upper wood
so the barrel showes all the way to breach ..the bolt was straight but we curved it...filled in the hole where the sling went with wood
puddy....carl gustafs stads gevarsfaktori 1901......also a black line recole pad installed on rifle...no. 12 on all parts with crown markings S.12..question is the rifle worth anything and can I get it back to original milityar fashon...are the parts available to restore??? thanks for the info..if you want I can call you if you think necessary,,,I live xxxxx
 
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