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I picked up a strange little carbine over the weekend with a great bore and no cleaning rod. I think it is 7.65 Argentine caliber but I am not 100% sure. It has the German Roller coaster rear and front sight like the GEW German Mausers, five shot removable box mag, and a bent bolt. The wood is really kind of nice and the sling swivels are mounted on the bottom front and rear. It has a Liege Belgium proof and 02XX serial number. It greatly resembles the Belgium 1896 rifle but is of course much shorter. A friend of mine looked at it and said he thought it was an older Argentine long rifle the Peruvians bought and shortened to modernize it a bit and that it was done in Belgium. I am picture incapable so don't ask as something in the camera is not in step with the computer. Any thoughts are appreciated! Bill
 

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?Peruvian M91/09 Carbine???

Dear Zeebill,
You are either very lucky or you have been taken for a ride.

Peru upgraded their M91 (ex Argentine markings) Long rifle by having Lange rear sights fitted, to more resemble the M1909 "Original Mauser" Peruvians sighted for Spitzer ammo.

I have not heard of any (Real) Peruvian "Carbines" with or without Lange sights, which instantly makes me suspicious that yours is a "Importer Cut down", done to facilitate sales of "truck-Guns" back in the 1960s (many other M91 types were cut down at the time (a lot of Argies especially); original M91 Peruvian carbines would have been the same as the M91 Argentine carbines, and I would assume that in 1909 Peru also ordered Carbines ( same as Arg M1909).

Liege proofed barrel??? FN supplied spare barrels to many Latin American Mauser users, so it could be a replacement barrel fitted in Peru, in the 1920s-30s.


A Lange sight on a Carbine (??Barrel length??) is a contradiction in technology (Lange, besides being a German surname, is also a word meaning "Long"...the Lange Sight is calibrated for relatively long range shooting (Min. sighting is 200 to 400 metres, depending on Rifle)...a Carbine should have minimum range of 100 metres, and be sighted in at that.

You will probably find that the sights are way off ,unless subsequently modified (deeper cut in rear sight "V" or taller front sight blade).

Anyway, if it is "kosher", it is a very uncommon variation...otherwise it is a Truck gun...good for meat hunting and plinking, but no collector value ( except for those who specialise in Military "Bubbas"/ Importer Bubbas.)

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics
 

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Doc AV
I suspected a Bubba as the sight is so out of place I almost passed it by but the price was too tempting and the dealer said he had something out of the ordinary and couldn't ID it. It is a Liege proofed barrel but is so short I really suspect the story you offered on a truck gun is more than likely right. The bore is really nice and I will shoot it if I can find some ammo and see how the sight works out. Thanks for the information and I will give here a try sometime in the near future. It handles and comes to the shoulder so easy and feels just so good I hope she shoots fairly well as I may just keep her for a deer gun being the damage may be done already. Again Thanks for you help in identifying this sweet little carbine! Best Regards Bill
 

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Have to agree with mauserdad, they are real. At least they were imported from Peru by Century that way back in the early '90s. I had two long rifles directly from Century (no one questions them) and have handled one carbine that is in nowhere near as nice condition as the one mauserdad illustrates and it is like the rifles with the Lange rear sight also imported from at the same time - dark wood and well worn metal with the same degree of wear on the Lange sight with dirt and grease in all recesses. These are not "Importer Cut down" carbines as I don't think that the importers added the muzzle wear....
 

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Have to agree with mauserdad, they are real. At least they were imported from Peru by Century that way back in the early '90s. I had two long rifles directly from Century (no one questions them) and have handled one carbine that is in nowhere near as nice condition as the one mauserdad illustrates and it is like the rifles with the Lange rear sight also imported from at the same time - dark wood and well worn metal with the same degree of wear on the Lange sight with dirt and grease in all recesses. These are not "Importer Cut down" carbines as I don't think that the importers added the muzzle wear....
I second that. I also have one almost the same as Mauserdad's (mine has no crest) which I submitted about a year ago for a similar discussion. I would call them "short rifles" rather than carbines, but that may be only appropriate because they do not look like the Argentine carbines on the front end.
 

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Zee and I had a long discussion over this one a long time ago.
At first I thought someone had done an incredibly fantastic chop-job on an 1891 and sterilized the crest/receiver.
However, after getting to handle and examine it in person, there were too many things about it that indicated it was an arsenal job, not hacksaw Timmy out in the garage.
It was unique enough to make a trade with Zee and bring it home with me three years ago.
it shoots fine, not a tack driver, but will kill paper plates out to 100 yards easily if I do my part without having to hold over or under or any other weirdness to get it on the target. It's not one that I want to shoot non-stop at every trip to the range, but it handled the 30 or so rounds I put through it a few times so far with no issues.
The bore is like new and is an asset to the Mauser family here.
 

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Gil,on mine if it is SLG marked it is below the wood line. What I do see above the wood line behind the rear sight on the right side is a Belgian proof. The PIC"s I provided above are of my carbine. The following are of my short rifle. Ed
 

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When I get home on the weekend I will look under the wood for the SJG marking. What does it stand for? Does anyone know where to find production numbers, if they are available??

Mauserdad you have two very fine rifles. great examples, and would be prized by any collector.
 

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Thank you Sir for the compliment. My understanding is that the mark "SLG" is a company mark for Sig in Switzerland who made the barrels.
 
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