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Copper Bullet member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My brother-in-law showed me his new rifle recently recently, and I was surprised to see a bore that looked like it had never been fired. Bore, throat, and crown are all sharp, clean, and shiny. Maybe this is more common than I know, but I was surprised to see a WWII refurb so nice.

How uncommon is it to find a run-of-the-mill '42 91/30 refurb with a perfect bore?
 

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I have a number of MN's made from 1915 to the 1940's with shiny sharp bores. Not uncommon to find a MN with a nice bore, not uncommon to find them with well worn pitted bores as many experienced rough conditions. Several members here have nice shiny sharp rifled barrels that were made in 1942. One has to peek down the bores to find a good one!

Pahtu.
 

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From what I understand (I wasn't there when any of these were made),is that the Finns rebarreled and restocked many rifles like the Tikka barreled 91/30's in the late 1940's and salted them away never fired. When century among others imported them into the US many were possibly test fired only weapons.
 

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From what I understand (I wasn't there when any of these were made),is that the Finns rebarreled and restocked many rifles like the Tikka barreled 91/30's in the late 1940's and salted them away never fired. When century among others imported them into the US many were possibly test fired only weapons.
Milsurps with new or like new bores are not rare. It takes some effort working with suppliers to get what you want.

The best shooting 91/30 we ever found, out of countless rifles tested, was a Finn with a new Tikka barrel on it. The only 54R rifles that came close to the accuracy at long range, were the M39s with exc. bores.

Back then there was some exc. surplus 54R available for long range shooting.

I don't know about nowdays. It seems like a crap shoot on ammo, not much consistancy.

The rifle was bought at AIM over a decade ago. Most vendors and specially our sponsors here give good info. on bore cond.

I assume the OP was talking about M/Ns.

Anyone serious about shooting 54R can find M/Ns with like new bores. It takes more effort nowdays, since they aren't as plentiful anylonger.

Many years back I had a deal with all local Big five stores, and the managers would hold back the rifles with new bores for me. We did a lot of business with them and would buy all the rifles with new bores for testing.

I think M39s are still available from a vendor with new or like new bores.
Exc. shooters up to 1,000 yds.

CIA used to advertise and price their rifles by cond. and bore cond.

Allen's is also good for getting the right info. if looking for rifles with good bores.

Usually bore cond. is not as impt. to collectors. Serious shooters need a good barrel and exc. ammo.

On a side note. None of the M/N X snipers or snipers, real or fake, were found with exc. bores. We went through a whole lot of those before giving up and realizing the only way to get a good long range shooting M/N was to find a regular field piece with a like new barrel and then trick it our for long range shooting.
 

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My '43 Tula PU sniper has a perfect or near perfect bore. It's one of the re-furbs sold by P&S Militaria over the last few years. Amongst the current crop of SVT imports up here most bores are dull and visibly worn but every now and then you stumble on a near perfect one (I've got mirror like '44 and '41's). It's hard to believe that a 70 plus year old barrel could survive in that condition but even more amazingly I have an 1896 Lee Enfield carbine with original barrel that looks like it was manufactured yesterday- incredible.

Ruprecht
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks everyone. I thought maybe they shouldn't be too terribly rare, but I had never seen one. Back in the day when I would buy the occasional Mosin Nagant at Big-5, I would go through a number of them to find the best condition, but never found one that nice. Maybe someone else had a deal with management, though, and the good ones never made it out to the rack. :)

A friend bought an M38 some years ago for something like $70 in about perfect condition. It was an excellent shooter and I tried to get him to sell it to me. He never would, then his kid shot a bunch of corrosive surplus through it one day and left it uncleaned in the closet for six months.
 

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I'd agree that it isn't that hard to find Mosins with really excellent bores. One of the biggest "demographics" is '43 Izhevsks-I think maybe the Soviets simply made too many of them and a lot of them never ended up being used much.

Most ex-snipers/snipers I've seen have had at least excellent bores, and I've found a couple of ex-PUs in crates over the last couple of months whose bore condition could only be described as "like new".
 

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I'd agree that it isn't that hard to find Mosins with really excellent bores. One of the biggest "demographics" is '43 Izhevsks-I think maybe the Soviets simply made too many of them and a lot of them never ended up being used much.

Most ex-snipers/snipers I've seen have had at least excellent bores, and I've found a couple of ex-PUs in crates over the last couple of months whose bore condition could only be described as "like new".
My experience is pretty much the other way around. Purchased a 1943 Tula ex-sniper all cosmo'd up non refurb. hoping the weak rifling was just cosmo filled grooves. Nope it was wore slap out. The PU I got frame AIM last go around had deeply pitted grooves but the rifling edges were sharp. One other Ishevsk ex my Bride found for me did have a Good ++ bore, not near shiney brite as-new bore. It shoots well though!

As for AIM they did not garauntee bore condition so no gripe. Of course everybody whom got a shiney bore seemed to post.

My solution to the pitted grooves (what I call the deeper cuts on the barrels ID) was to buy some commercial heavier weighted bullet, loaded cartridges so I won't have to clean or worry about cleaning for corrosive primers. May reload later. Just to pile up powder residue in the pits to tighten the bore. I destinctly remember some posts from years back on fellow board members who had thoroughly cleaned the barrels on their snipers or ex-snipers and accuracy deteriorated significantly until fouling reasserted itself. Hoping my PU follows suit. Like Dennis Kroh said about over cleaning damaging a bore, get some non-corrosive ammo and leave it fouled if the bore is less than perfect.

Draybo
 

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Remember that there is a lot more to accuracy than just a "perfect bore." much of it very tough to see.
Some of my more beat-up rifles will outshoot my "perfect bores" as such things as stock fit, chamber dimensions, land dimensions, bolt fit and trigger plus some unknowns like resonance all affect accuracy.
Also, there is a mysterious "accuracy ju-ju" when all comes together in a rare rifle that just does it all right.
Not to say super bores don't matter, just that they are not the be-all and end-all of accuracy.
 

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Remember that there is a lot more to accuracy than jut a "perfect bore." much of it very tough to see.
Some of my more beat-up rifles will outshoot my "perfect bores" as such things as stock fit, chamber dimensions, land dimensions, bolt fit and trigger plus some unknowns like resonance all affect accuracy.
Also, there is a mysterious "accuracy ju-ju" when all comes together in a rare rifle that just does it all right.
Not to say supper bores don't matter, just that they are not the be-all and end-all of accuracy.
All very true. And I wouldn't doubt if the resonance thing is one of the biggies.
 
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