[hairball II]

you are right they do run in packs. but the wildlife experts always laugh at this and say they don't. they need to put down their manuals and spend more time in the woods. i would say most dogs can whip a single coyote though because they just aren't that strong and don't have the drive to equal a dogs protective instinct. but they are clever and quick!

When I lived in Kali, Glendale, we had the coyote problem. They liked to dine on housecat, and nay manner of dog they could kill and get away with. One of my classmates lost a pair of Dobies to a coyote. Don't let the small size fool ya. I have SEEN a coyote wear down and kill a Great Dane. Craziest freakin' thing, coyote got one leg then a quick one on the throat and the Dane was down. Classmate got a pound dog, decent sized one, shepard mix. Coyotes came down to dine, and left one of their own i the yard with a pound dog cheerfully ripping it to pieces.

Funny some of the experts say coyotes don't hang in packs. Others have documented the packs, even showed one pack taking a black bear cub from its mother. They are not organized packs like wolves, but they will hang togetehr for bigger game.

Coyotes know enough to avoid my group. Wolcves are the natural enemies of coyotes, and it takes quite few coyotes to bring down one wolf.

 

[gunslinger586]

They may not hunt in packs but they sure do serenade all night long in packs around my place. My son and I used to sit on the back porch at night and howl like fools and have the whole countryside in an uproar. They are not fearful of humans here. They walk right down the middle of the street at night and have managed to take every cat on the fringes of town. One of my buddies has killed three of them on his place for harassing his horses at night. The police said shooting them was a no no but if nobody calls them, no harm done. Wink wink.

 

[Edward Tinker]

Not sure why you have "outside" dogs. Whats the purpose, and letting your others roam free? That is what others call "feral" dogs.....


never have understood the drive to kill coyotes, they are a intregal part of the food chain, unlike wild dogs roaming free.


Ed

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

everything that eats or dies is part of the food chain.. even now athletes foot is enjoying me as part of the food chain... even sap thirsty carrot killers that won't eat meat are part of the food chain



hey foot.. I hear vegitarians taste better.. go bother them for a while...


Why are we not discussing good dog training books or schools to really make the dog part of the team??

Okay my 3 dogs are laughing thier butts off at that last one.... hmmm obediance school ... I should look into that .... oh ho ho ho... my dogs just stopped laughing...

 

[dou 44]

packs

i have a pack that comes around my house very late and my dogs wake me up barking at them in the fiels behind my house .my yard is fenced in so they would have to jump it or dig under it to get in,i have a irish setter and a sooner. by the time i can get out side they are to far away to take a shot at .i just wishi could catch one up close .

 

[hairball II]

One of the funnier things that used to happen when I lived in Nevada was what happened when Misha, my lodest female wolf went into heat.

It seemed that every coyote for miles aorund would hang out at the furthest corner of my 5 acre plot and howl.

All night long, they would serenade, as if to say "Can Misha come out and play?" Not wanting to be grandpa to a coy/wolf, I kept her behind the fence. During those night you would shine a flood light out back and see a line of yellow eyes along the back property line.

One tmie, I let her mate and her four cubs into the main yard and they tore off in the direction of the howling. A few excited yips and my pack came back, but the coyotes did not for the rest of the week.

I have never considered shooting my coyotes. They keep the rabbit population down outside the fence, and me and the pack keep the rabbit population down. I hate rabbits more than coyotes.

 

[OhBoy]

I blasted this one during the November Firearm Deer season . It came hauling ass out of the pine woods shortly after I heard a shot from one of the neighboring parcels.


http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u278/Ohboy_album/Deer08009.jpg

 

[Billofthenorth2]

Not sure why you have "outside" dogs. Whats the purpose, and letting your others roam free? That is what others call "feral" dogs.....


never have understood the drive to kill coyotes, they are a intregal part of the food chain, unlike wild dogs roaming free.


Ed

Coyotes are somewhat of an exotic in many parts of the country. The former wolf population kept out the coyotes, now that there are no wolves the coyotes fill the niche.
I think I'd rather have the wolves but that will probably take another decade or two, we are possibly getting some now (lower Michigan) moving south from the U.P.
I don't like killing coyotes en masse the way I see it done in places but I understand the problems they can cause.

 

[hairball II]

I recall part of a report done after the wolves had been reintroduced into Yellowstone. When the wolf population was wiped out by idiots, the coyote population exploded, which, noone knew at the time, affected water fowl. Appears that coyotes being the perfect opportunist, were making mince meat of water fowl.

After the reintroduction of the wolves, the coyote explosion was reduced, dramatically. On another program on Nat Geo, they were discussing one wolf pack in which the alpha female made it a purpose in killing every coyote she could get her fangs on.

You want something that can defend itself from coyotes, get something with wolf in it, like huskies or malamutes. Having a large dog is no guarentee, as I have seen what coyotes can do to Great Danes, Rotties, Dobies and most non-shepard breeds.

Coyotes are quick and have a very strong bite. Seeing a coyote take a rattlesnake gives you an appreciation of their speed, and why they can best a bigger, less agile dog. My daughter's Queensland did well against a coyote, though the little psycho did not do too well against my wolf. Little Queensland got her clock cleaned.

 

[m1aman]

i do not see any need for coyotes where i live. they are hard on native animals like, fox, songbirds, rabbits... well, basically anything smaller then they are.

here is my resident coyote slayer. 5 years and 70 pounds with a huge jaw. i used to have a matched set but his brother recently disappeared. i suspect a deer hunter. a number of times i would be sitting outside at night and the coyotes would start to yelpl. my dogs would immediately run off in the direction of the sound. after a few minutes i would hear a fury of growling, yelping, barking and crying. about 10 minutes later my boys would come home with their ears chewed and blood running down their necks. not their blood though. they would be so happy with their tails in a dominant posture and just skipping all around me waiting for approval and of course they would get it in heaps.

but since his brother has gone to the happy hunting grounds he mostly just barks at the coyotes. sometimes he even stands up to bark at them.

 

[m1aman]

You want something that can defend itself from coyotes, get something with wolf in it, like huskies or malamutes. Having a large dog is no guarentee, as I have seen what coyotes can do to Great Danes, Rotties, Dobies and most non-shepard breeds.

my experience is very different. a dog of equal size (a motivated dog) is not good news for a coyote. coyotes where i live are 40 pounds tops. usually about 30. coyotes don't care to risk getting injured if they can avoid it. a dog usually doesn't have that fear. of course i am generalizing greatly i realize and i am talking one on one. i am having a very hard time believing a coyote be a problem for a great dane or a dobe. i have had several of each and i can tell you they would not have put up with a lowly coyote. in fact my current dobe has whipped both of my yard dogs one of which you see in the photo. those two dogs have been coyotes worse nightmare and have even killed one and left it at my doorstep. but they pretty much kill everything wild they encounter.

i know coyotes are strong for their size and extremely clever. but they just don't have the body mass or motivation to fight an animal that can hurt them and possibly bring about their slow death if they can't compete for food.

 

[Edward Tinker]

.... but they pretty much kill everything wild they encounter..

and this is a good thing?

Why would you want them out killing for killings sake?

I just don't get this mentality...

 

[hairball II]

my experience is very different. a dog of equal size (a motivated dog) is not good news for a coyote. coyotes where i live are 40 pounds tops. usually about 30. coyotes don't care to risk getting injured if they can avoid it. a dog usually doesn't have that fear. of course i am generalizing greatly i realize and i am talking one on one. i am having a very hard time believing a coyote be a problem for a great dane or a dobe. i have had several of each and i can tell you they would not have put up with a lowly coyote. in fact my current dobe has whipped both of my yard dogs one of which you see in the photo. those two dogs have been coyotes worse nightmare and have even killed one and left it at my doorstep. but they pretty much kill everything wild they encounter.

i know coyotes are strong for their size and extremely clever. but they just don't have the body mass or motivation to fight an animal that can hurt them and possibly bring about their slow death if they can't compete for food.

When I lived in Glendale California, the coyotes were big. They got big and strong on a diet of cat and dog. Like I said, one of my classmates lost some large dogs to coyotes. It was smoething that happened, and gave me an insight to the nature of wild meet man. Two coyotes took down a grown Dane, took his legs out, the one tore the throat, while the other started dining on guts. Not pretty, but most large city dogs do not have the savvy to survive their meetings with wild animals.

As wolves go, my Misha is nott he biggest, but she puts the fear of God into a pack of coyotes. The largest group she chased was 5, and they ran for another half mile after Misha stopped chasing them. A large coddled, sheltered dog has no chance against a hungry animal that has made a habit of turning Fido into Alpo.

Now, I do know that the coyotes we had in Nevada treated the local dogs with a lot more respect than they did in Glendale, Kali. Most of my neighbors had smallish to mediumish dogs, and they did not lose them to coyotes at the rate they did in Kali.

I guess it really comes down to locales.

 

[m1aman]

and this is a good thing?

Why would you want them out killing for killings sake?

I just don't get this mentality...

yes it is a great thing! i haven't had any problems with animals in my yard since i got them. i use to have beavers cutting down trees and damming up the pond. had a big problem with skunks too. not something you want to open the door to at night! armadillos and skunks used to dig up the yard at night. fox and weasels used to kill my chickens. hawks too for that matter. deer used to get in my garden and eat my peas. these are just a few examples and my dogs have taken care of all of these problems.

no offense but you sound like a city dweller. any country boy or girl understands the value of good yard dogs. they are not meant to be pets you cuddle with. they are guardians. they protect the property and anything on it. they have never bothered another human being. they have been great dogs.

 

[hairball II]

and this is a good thing?

Why would you want them out killing for killings sake?

I just don't get this mentality...

I do not get the notion he wants them to do this, but that it is a part of what they are. My pack likes to 'play' with any animals they meet, even coyotes. Problem is, they play real rough, and I have lost some cats that way. My pack just does not relaize that if you have 5-6, 50-80 pound animals jumping on a little squeaky thing, it may get hurt. It was a lot of work to get them to treat humans with gentility. My pack is the finest pack aorund people you will ever know, but they are hard on the other critters.

The only thing the pack kill on sight are rabbits, and I have encouraged that, as rabbits are vermin, and I am efficient at killing them wholesale.

Otherwise, raccoons, possums, coyotes and armadilloes are safe in my yard and on my property.

 

[m1aman]

hairball tell me more about your wolf mix if you would. i had an opportunity to get a 1/2 lab and 1/2 wolf hybrid recently but passed because i just don't know anything about wolf mixes. i heard they if they have wolf in them they are hard to housebreak because wolves aren't averse to going within their den like a dog is.

and like you said i do recognize the difference between a house/sheltered dog and one that has lived it's entire life outdoors. hell, my dogs don't even have a dog house. they sleep under the bushhog which is raised up a little. i taught them to come, go, sit, down. that is it.

 

[hairball II]

no offense but you sound like a city dweller. any country boy or girl understands the value of good yard dogs. they are not meant to be pets you cuddle with. they are guardians. they protect the property and anything on it. they have never bothered another human being. they have been great dogs.

Well, unless that other human being is a danger to you, then they should cheerfully chow down on them.

It is funny, I never trained mine for protection, but they all know levels of escalation. When possible, they give warning, and will even try to pull the offender off before they get serious. They don't just have an on/off switch. I have know very few dogs like that.

 

[hairball II]

hairball tell me more about your wolf mix if you would. i had an opportunity to get a 1/2 lab and 1/2 wolf hybrid recently but passed because i just don't know anything about wolf mixes. i heard they if they have wolf in them they are hard to housebreak because wolves aren't averse to going within their den like a dog is.

and like you said i do recognize the difference between a house/sheltered dog and one that has lived it's entire life outdoors. hell, my dogs don't even have a dog house. they sleep under the bushhog which is raised up a little. i taught them to come, go, sit, down. that is it.

This is my pack in Nevada. They loved winters in Nevada.

I will tell you that anything with wolf in it will be work. They do have a mind, a thought proccess that is entirely different from dogs. Thye can be housebroken, but they will dump if you do not acknowledge their cues. They will only hold it as long as they feel you will do your part and either let them out, or take them for a walk.

Also, you can get them used to the leash. You can make them downright docile on the leash, but you will n ever be able to trust them off leash, like dogs. While you can get them to come back after they run a bit, they will chase most anything that runs. You can make them sociable and friendly toward humans, but they are rough on other animals, and don't always accept a new house pet.

If you are going to get a mix, have your wolf with a bit of either shepard, husky or malamute.

Still, and keep this in mnd, many states and locales have very strict laws regarding wolf and wolf-mixes. In Kali they are forbidden. Here in Arkansas, in some parts of Kentucky and the whole of Nevada, they have no problems with wolves. You will have to check.

I wouldn't go with anything else. After 15 years with them, I find them more intutive, intelligent (too damn intelligent sometimes) and sweet than any other dog I have had.

Right now, my Misha is dying, and I am not going to do to well when she passess, which looks like around Christmas, the way things are going. Still, I have her mate and daughters, and they are, like their mom, a delight.

 

[trainsktg]

What a great thread this topic has turned into .

Keith

 

[m1aman]

that is a beautiful pic of those wolves! am i to understand they live indoors or in a kennel? i ask because i wonder how you would control them if they run loose in the yard. sorry to hear about misha. my pit mix is 15 years old next month and she is really declining.