Origins of 7mm VZ24's

8502 Views 20 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Hrvatski, Jan 2, 2021

David Murvihill

Discussion Starter · Apr 25, 2010

Couldn't find this subject in a thread search, but I ordered a 7mm VZ24 from a distributor last week, and the last couple of posts about them got me curious about their origins. Here's my thinking:
1. They showed up on the wholesale market the same time as the 8mm VZ24's. The reports I've seen on the 8mm VZ24's indicates pretty good odds that they were refurbished somewhere behind the Iron Curtain.
2. 7mm is a very weird caliber to find with ex-WW2 rifles. Usually it's associated with South America. MMROW says that several South American countries received VZ24's, but how'd they get back to the same warehouse as the 8mm rifles? (leftovers from a SA contract would be a possibility)
I started looking through MMROW, and the only country in Europe I could find that used 7mm Mauser ammo was Serbia. In the introductory paragraph it states that Serbia bought 40,000 VZ24's between the wars. Maybe that's where they came from?

Does anyone have anything more definitive?

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

lcmunn

· #2 · Apr 25, 2010

The Serbs (Yugoslavs for a while) were committed to the 7.92x57 round by the early 1920's (1924 contracts and Kragujevac products) and purchased at least their first batch of VZ24's from Czech military stores so they would have been 7.92. Only Spain in Europe held onto the 7x57 into WWII and they switched to 7.92 with the Model 1943 rifles. The rust on the 7mm's certainly has a humid tropical look to it (Central or South America). Given the booming milsurp market in the US right now, I'll bet buyers are everywhere- looking for an undisturbed cache of rifles set aside when countries made their pick of sugar daddies in the Cold War.

geladen

· #3 · Apr 26, 2010

7

The bulk of currently available 7mm VZ24 rifles were imported from Brazil. They were a special light weight version (known as VZ24 JC) ordered around 1929-1930 by China but not paid, so they were rebarrelled to 7mm and sold to Brazilian revolutionaries, then either intercepted or captured by the Brazilian government. These, as well as other models, were later marked with a PM prefix number by Brazil on the right side of the receiver. The post below is from the sticky "Mausers, Only Mausers" which contains a lot of good information on all kinds of Mausers.

Brazilian VZ24 (JC) rifle, 7X57. Made by CZ Brno c.1930. Bolt mismatch off by 339 numbers, imported by Century. Lightened VZ24 (JC), French sling, correct bayonet (blade edge down), scabbard, and replica frog. Purchased by San Paulo revolutionaries but captured by Brazil.

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Regis Rex

· #4 · Apr 26, 2010

7mm VZ24's are all South American. They ended up in the same warehouse as the 8mm ones because they were imported by the same importer, not from the same country.

my-rifle

· #5 · Apr 28, 2010

geladen said:
The bulk of currently available 7mm VZ24 rifles were imported from Brazil. They were a special light weight version (known as VZ24 JC) ordered around 1929-1930 by China but not paid, so they were rebarrelled to 7mm and sold to Brazilian revolutionaries, then either intercepted or captured by the Brazilian government. These, as well as other models, were later marked with a PM prefix number by Brazil on the right side of the receiver. The post below is from the sticky "Mausers, Only Mausers" which contains a lot of good information on all kinds of Mausers.

Brazilian VZ24 (JC) rifle, 7X57. Made by CZ Brno c.1930. Bolt mismatch off by 339 numbers, imported by Century. Lightened VZ24 (JC), French sling, correct bayonet (blade edge down), scabbard, and replica frog. Purchased by San Paulo revolutionaries but captured by Brazil.

Man you have solved a puzzle that has intrigued me for a long time. I have one of these, and I always wondered why my vz24 has a turned down bolt handle and has its stock inletted below the handle. Century sold me this about a year ago for something like $125, and I always wondered what the heck it was. Thanks to you I know now.

geladen

· #6 · Apr 28, 2010

my-rifle said:
Man you have solved a puzzle that has intrigued me for a long time. I have one of these, and I always wondered why my vz24 has a turned down bolt handle and has its stock inletted below the handle. Century sold me this about a year ago for something like $125, and I always wondered what the heck it was. Thanks to you I know now.

I know something about a gun before I buy it, but after I get it I can't rest until I have uncovered every available detail about the history of that individual gun.

David Murvihill

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 29, 2010

Thanks guys, I opened up the box today and you're right, it fits the description given in Ball's book of the Brazil VZ24's exactly. Mine doesn't look quite as pretty as yours though. BTW, I tend to buy "in the blind" then find out what I got. In retrospect it's probably a bass ackwards way to do it.

geladen said:
I know something about a gun before I buy it, but after I get it I can't rest until I have uncovered every available detail about the history of that individual gun.

awp101

· #8 · Apr 29, 2010

David Murvihill said:
I tend to buy "in the blind" then find out what I got. In retrospect it's probably a bass ackwards way to do it.

True, but it adds a sense of adventure to the whole process...:thumbsup:

sgthurley

· #9 · Apr 29, 2010

Mine, bought from SOG, is in excellent condition and is very accurate. I like the 7mm better than the 8mm because of my neck surgery. The 7mm is every bit as accurate and effective and less harm to the shooter.

David Murvihill

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 1, 2010

I've been cleaning up my rifle and I have a few more questions:
1. This is my second Brazilian rifle, and both have a very dark finish, almost black. Is that a result of aging or did the Brazilians stain the wood really dark? It's even, so I doubt it was oil soaked or stained by accident.
2. There's a four digit serial number on the left side of the receiver, another four digit number along the butt on the left side of the stock, a number on the right side of the receiver "PM 00970.13" but the point is in the middle and a different number 4201 00017397 4 stamped on the stock below the "VZ24" stamp. Also, a 2" high "5" on the right side of the butt. (Plus the wholesaler serial number right above the four digit number). I know the two four-digit numbers are the original serial numbers, what's the PM number and the other number on the stock?
3. What kind of sling would go on this rifle?

It's a neat rifle, now I have to find a bayonet for it, and sling....

awp101

· #11 · May 1, 2010 (Edited)

David Murvihill said:
2. There's a four digit serial number on the left side of the receiver, another four digit number along the butt on the left side of the stock, a number on the right side of the receiver "PM 00970.13" but the point is in the middle and a different number 4201 00017397 4 stamped on the stock below the "VZ24" stamp. Also, a 2" high "5" on the right side of the butt. (Plus the wholesaler serial number right above the four digit number). I know the two four-digit numbers are the original serial numbers, what's the PM number and the other number on the stock?

As I understand it, the PM# indicates the Policia Militar (sp?) inventoried it at some point. The longer 4201# might be something like an NSN?

EDIT: I wondered why that info was close to the surface in my memory.:laugh: I asked a similar question about a month ago.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?167096-Brazilian-vz24-short-rifle-marking-question

geladen

· #12 · May 1, 2010

David Murvihill said:
I've been cleaning up my rifle and I have a few more questions:
1. This is my second Brazilian rifle, and both have a very dark finish, almost black. Is that a result of aging or did the Brazilians stain the wood really dark? It's even, so I doubt it was oil soaked or stained by accident.

Many well used South American Mausers have dark stocks. It is probably oil. Put it in the sun and you can most likely get rid of some of it.

2. There's a four digit serial number on the left side of the receiver, another four digit number along the butt on the left side of the stock, a number on the right side of the receiver "PM 00970.13" but the point is in the middle and a different number 4201 00017397 4 stamped on the stock below the "VZ24" stamp. Also, a 2" high "5" on the right side of the butt. (Plus the wholesaler serial number right above the four digit number). I know the two four-digit numbers are the original serial numbers, what's the PM number and the other number on the stock?

They are both Brazilian numbers. As said before, the PM number is probably military police, which could be a bit different in Brazil from US Military Police. The 5 sounds like a rack number.

3. What kind of sling would go on this rifle?

Numrich Gun Parts has some original VZ24 export slings that they list in fair condition. Those I bought were in at least good condition.

It's a neat rifle, now I have to find a bayonet for it, and sling....

You want a VZ24 export bayonet without Czech or Romanian acceptance marks. Those marks are very small and usually on the bottom side of the hilt between the grips. For an interesting VZ24 export bayonet, see: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?169647-Unknown-Czech-Bayonet

TMann

· #13 · May 1, 2010

DAVID:

RE: PM series serial numbers. Try this thread: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?163633-What-would-you-pay-for-a-SWEET-P-Series-Vz24

Magellen80

· #14 · May 1, 2010

did these VZ24's ever have a straight bolt? or does that indicate a spare bolt someone mismatched to the rifle?

geladen

· #15 · May 2, 2010

Magellen80 said:
did these VZ24's ever have a straight bolt? or does that indicate a spare bolt someone mismatched to the rifle?

I should never say never. Having said that, I will say they never had a straight bolt when manufactured.

sgthurley

· #16 · May 2, 2010

I received one from SOG a couple of months ago and after a lot of cleaning it has turned into one of my best shooters. I recommend them. I may go for another if I can refrain from their Hi-Power pistols. I bought one and it is excellent. It is replacing my carry pistol.

JaegerII

· #17 · Jan 2, 2021

geladen said:
The bulk of currently available 7mm VZ24 rifles were imported from Brazil. They were a special light weight version (known as VZ24 JC) ordered around 1929-1930 by China but not paid, so they were rebarrelled to 7mm and sold to Brazilian revolutionaries, then either intercepted or captured by the Brazilian government. These, as well as other models, were later marked with a PM prefix number by Brazil on the right side of the receiver. The post below is from the sticky "Mausers, Only Mausers" which contains a lot of good information on all kinds of Mausers.

Brazilian VZ24 (JC) rifle, 7X57. Made by CZ Brno c.1930. Bolt mismatch off by 339 numbers, imported by Century. Lightened VZ24 (JC), French sling, correct bayonet (blade edge down), scabbard, and replica frog. Purchased by San Paulo revolutionaries but captured by Brazil.

Attached Thumbnails

JaegerII

· #18 · Jan 2, 2021

geladen, I am curious if you still have the VZ24 pictured in your post. I happen to have the rifle S/N 2200 and would very much be interested in buying or trading for the bolt on your rifle. I am convinced it is the mate to my rifle and would like to have all serial numbers matching. What are thee odds of finding the bolt that came from your rifle. Your consideration would be greatly appreciated if you still have it.

geladen

· #19 · Jan 2, 2021

PM (now called "conversation") sent.

Hrvatski

· #20 · Jan 2, 2021 (Edited)

10

Bought this example 10 years ago on a Gunbroker auction. If I recall paid $100. 4 different serial numbers. Original on the left receiver is 3356. Bolt handle numbered 1437. Clean no rust or pitting above or below the wood. 7x57mm. Bore is somewhat bright with well used lands and grooves. Muzzle is still relatively tight. The bullet in the photo is a 140 Gr Nosler ballistic tip. Wood is in good condition. Bolt stop is German K98k.

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