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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday was the best day in my over ten years of collecting Curio & Relic rifles without question. I was able to buy TWO original Ottoman Mausers with intact crests at the same time! The owner of a local shop I frequent offered these to me yesterday after mentioning he had them in his possession about a week ago after I expressed some interest in Ottoman/Turkish Mausers. The first is a model 1890 in fair/good condition with a few stock repairs but I’m definitely not complaining! It’s missing it’s cleaning rod and I’m thinking about buying an Argentine 91 rod for “display” purposes. The bore is actually not bad, but I doubt I’ll ever shoot it. Interestingly it has a CAI import mark on it so it must have slipped in through a crate back in the 90s as an oddball or it came out of Greece/the Balkans somewhere.

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The next one which I’m particularly excited about is an 1893 Mauser in Very Good condition. This one looks like it was barely used with minimal wear. It’s definitely the finest piece in my collection by far. The cutoff switch is much more fun than it should be.
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I’m so appreciative of the opportunity to acquire these and I’m looking forward to filling out the rest of the set with a 1903 and the related carbines at some point. It may never even happen due to their rarity, but I will always be on the hunt. These are definitely rifles I plan to hold onto for the rest of my life.
 

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Outstanding finding both at the same time! Unconverted specimens of either getting very hard to locate. The import marking is interesting and hard to say where these two hid out for so many years. I think the vast majority of these original pattern Turk rifles may have come in back in the pre 68, not import marked days. So many rifles in the Balkans got converted to 8mm as well, so luckily, they both missed that fate!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Outstanding finding both at the same time! Unconverted specimens of either getting very hard to locate. The import marking is interesting and hard to say where these two hid out for so many years. I think the vast majority of these original pattern Turk rifles may have come in back in the pre 68, not import marked days. So many rifles in the Balkans got converted to 8mm as well, so luckily, they both missed that fate!
Yes the import mark was very interesting to myself and the shop owner. It’s one of the lightly stamped discrete under the barrel ones that are common on typical Turkish refurb Mausers hence the theory it was just accidentally included in a box of rifles sent to century during the 90s. I’m interested to see if any of the other collectors here have ever seen this on their examples.

I do know the shop owner told me these came from one of his collector friends who typically specializes in Serbian/Balkan rifles but needed to downsize during Covid to cover bills. The shop owner held onto them with the idea his customer would want to buy them back later, but he wasn’t interested in them anymore.

The 1893 has a hang tag on it with what looks like a museum “blurb” on its history. So that one may have come out of a small museum somewhere at some point.
 

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"The owner of a local shop I frequent offered these to me yesterday after mentioning he had them in his possession about a week ago "

Some of us are very lucky; others, not so much.
 

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"The cutoff switch is much more fun than it should be." Uhhhhh, excuse me. Have you not "woke" yet. Having fun is no longer an option. You are obviously too pleased with them. Send them to a grumpy old man.(Me) and I will feel guilty about having them.

The 1890/91 style mauser is one of the finest rifles made.
 
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I thought I had some nice Turk rifles in my collection but they don't hold a candle to these. Very nice indeed! Thank you for showing them.
 

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Hi AR! Congrats on a great find on the pair! Very very Scarce to find BOTH at the sane time! Seems like you have had a good week just like me as I Literally just picked up another Ottoman Gem, which was a second 1908 Ottoman Engineers carbine. Wasn't expecting a second but couldint say no to a second ;).

Regarding your question about the CAI import mark. I think this is a fair judgement these came in during the early days when import marks only needed the companies name instead of the address and a new serial number. Most likely late 80s-early 90s. I literally just upgraded my ottoman 1890 which was RODE HARD PUT UP WET. I almost think it spent time Greece. To a Ottoman 1890 in much better condition, that also features the CAI import mark. To make note the late John wall had a few 1890 ottomans and one of his also featured a CAI mark.

My Friend Lee down south sent me some turkish 7.65 Ammo made in 1934-1935. Which means even though the (Now Turkish Republic) started converting 7.65 guns to 8x57, this proves the Turks still had 7.65 guns well into the 1930s. My belief is these guns were still in turkey come the 1930s, the 7.65 guns that is, and by 1935-36 they had seen the 1890s as obsolete and not worth there time to convert, (At least the small number of 1890s left in inventory that were out in the field) As they still had many 1903s and War aid guns such as the Gew 88s and the Gew 98s. At last walla a possible theory on how some of these guns came into the country with the simple CAI import mark.

Congrats on both find once again.

Gage [
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi AR! Congrats on a great find on the pair! Very very Scarce to find BOTH at the sane time! Seems like you have had a good week just like me as I Literally just picked up another Ottoman Gem, which was a second 1908 Ottoman Engineers carbine. Wasn't expecting a second but couldint say no to a second ;).

Regarding your question about the CAI import mark. I think this is a fair judgement these came in during the early days when import marks only needed the companies name instead of the address and a new serial number. Most likely late 80s-early 90s. I literally just upgraded my ottoman 1890 which was RODE HARD PUT UP WET. I almost think it spent time Greece. To a Ottoman 1890 in much better condition, that also features the CAI import mark. To make note the late John wall had a few 1890 ottomans and one of his also featured a CAI mark.

My Friend Lee down south sent me some turkish 7.65 Ammo made in 1934-1935. Which means even though the (Now Turkish Republic) started converting 7.65 guns to 8x57, this proves the Turks still had 7.65 guns well into the 1930s. My belief is these guns were still in turkey come the 1930s, the 7.65 guns that is, and by 1935-36 they had seen the 1890s as obsolete and not worth there time to convert, (At least the small number of 1890s left in inventory that were out in the field) As they still had many 1903s and War aid guns such as the Gew 88s and the Gew 98s. At last walla a possible theory on how some of these guns came into the country with the simple CAI import mark.

Congrats on both find once again.

Gage [
Thank you! If your ever looking to get rid of you “duplicate” engineers carbine or any other neat Ottoman stuff let me know 😉
 

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Color me green as well, those are beauts and as Dallased said, the 1890-91 rifles and carbines have some of the most beautiful lines in the milsurp world. Finding two original Ottomans at once just goes to show, some of the rarest gems show up when you least expect it. Great score and thanks for sharing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Will indeed keep you in mind, and now you need to add a 87 to the mix;)
I know! I missed one a few months ago on Gunbroker of all places because I was out on vacation in Hawaii with the wife so I was not watching things as closely as I usually do…

I usually just lurk around on here unless I have a unique perspective to provide, but I’ve been following your own quest to find all things Ottoman with jealousy. Your 87 carbine buy was quite the acquisition! Your lucky to have friends looking out for you and tipping you off on international auctions.
 

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I know! I missed one a few months ago on Gunbroker of all places because I was out on vacation in Hawaii with the wife so I was not watching things as closely as I usually do…

I usually just lurk around on here unless I have a unique perspective to provide, but I’ve been following your own quest to find all things Ottoman with jealousy. Your 87 carbine buy was quite the acquisition! Your lucky to have friends looking out for you and tipping you off on international auctions.
THANKS AR! Don't you just hate when you are vacationing and you miss the gun because yiur trying to impress the wife? Wow Sounds like i can relate lol.
The 87 carbine is by far the jewel of the ottoman side, but I almost think if I found the elusive Navy contract 03 that would get bumped to number 2. The 87 is rode of course, but it probably sat in some sand for a but or on a beach in Gallipoli. It seems the Calvary 1908 is rarer then the 87 and they mad almost 5 times those then the 87. That is the bect great treasure thats a somewhat reasonable search. Thanks for following AR.

Gage.
 

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I really like the Turk Mausers in 7,65mm too. The main one I am missing is the 1890, so very well done. They are very rare in Australia, but I have seen maybe four that I did not bid high enough on. Rarer still are the M1903 rifle and M1905 carbine in 7.65, and I have only ever seen one each of those. The M1893s are the most common out here for some reason.

I just received a M1887 bayonet and scabbard in the mail I was happy with.
Wood Fixture Door Metal Handle


It was listed on ebay as Turkish Bayonet without a full description, so I was hoping everyone would skim past it as just another M1890. Unfortunately, at least two others must have picked the low muzzle ring as being the 1887, so I did not get it for a steal. I asked the vendor if there was a story with it, and he said it came out of a garage sale in western Victoria over 20 years ago. Their story was that it was a souvenir of a 4th Light Horseman taken at Beersheba. Sounds feasible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I really like the Turk Mausers in 7,65mm too. The main one I am missing is the 1890, so very well done. They are very rare in Australia, but I have seen maybe four that I did not bid high enough on. Rarer still are the M1903 rifle and M1905 carbine in 7.65, and I have only ever seen one each of those. The M1893s are the most common out here for some reason.

I just received a M1887 bayonet and scabbard in the mail I was happy with. View attachment 3856412

It was listed on ebay as Turkish Bayonet without a full description, so I was hoping everyone would skim past it as just another M1890. Unfortunately, at least two others must have picked the low muzzle ring as being the 1887, so I did not get it for a steal. I asked the vendor if there was a story with it, and he said it came out of a garage sale in western Victoria over 20 years ago. Their story was that it was a souvenir of a 4th Light Horseman taken at Beersheba. Sounds feasible.
That’s a beautiful bayonet! Sometimes you just have to pay for what you want when you see it. Many of these ottoman items are so rare you may only get a few chances to even see them in your life.
 

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I know this is of topic, but the Turkish stuff in general is very interesting. Here are some fire control instruments for the Krupp 75mm field guns (M1904) built for the Turkish contracts.

This is an old style dial sight for 7.5cm gun No.271. that mounts on top of the sighting bar shank
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A 75mm M04 artillery sight clinometer that is bolted to the side of the sighting bar shank,
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a 75mm field clinometer that is placed on the top of the breech,
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and finally, a very early model (1902-3?) Goerz panoramic sight. This is the granddaddy of all panoramic sights used by all combatants in WW1, WW2 and through to today. It was uniquely for the Krupp Rumanian model 1904 75mm gun, but several of these were captured by the Turks before and during WW1, so the graduations have been re-inscribed with Arabic numerals.
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This is the breech of the gun in question that was captured by the Turks.
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There were also some Mauser C96 pistols made for the Turks which would be very collectible, I would think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I know this is of topic, but the Turkish stuff in general is very interesting. Here are some fire control instruments for the Krupp 75mm field guns (M1904) built for the Turkish contracts.

This is an old style dial sight for 7.5cm gun No.271. that mounts on top of the sighting bar shank
View attachment 3856463




A 75mm M04 artillery sight clinometer that is bolted to the side of the sighting bar shank,
View attachment 3856464


a 75mm field clinometer that is placed on the top of the breech,
View attachment 3856465


and finally, a very early model (1902-3?) Goerz panoramic sight. This is the granddaddy of all panoramic sights used by all combatants in WW1, WW2 and through to today. It was uniquely for the Krupp Rumanian model 1904 75mm gun, but several of these were captured by the Turks before and during WW1, so the graduations have been re-inscribed with Arabic numerals.
View attachment 3856466


This is the breech of the gun in question that was captured by the Turks.
View attachment 3856467

There were also some Mauser C96 pistols made for the Turks which would be very collectible, I would think.
Wow. Those are some amazing pieces! I’m sure you Aussies and Kiwis have slightly more access to these kind of artifacts due to the ANZAC participation at Gallipoli and other middle eastern fronts but I bet they are’s still rare. Thank you for sharing!
 
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