[LarrysGrip]

I really have enjoyed target shooting my matching milsurps and getting good results with handloads. At the range I'm seeing more double targets, particularly at 300 yds, and often at 100 yds depending on the target size. I also experienced yesterday "white out" of the black in the target using the MOJO aperture sighting system. This has never happened before. I realize at my age I will soon need optical help and wondering what I should request for my 65th birthday.

I also have a mismatched K98 and Swedish M38. I am thinking of scoping. Given all the facets of bolt bending, safety alterations as well as useable optics for primarily informal target shooting as well as some hunting from deer stands in SC, in your opinion what are my best options?

Which gives better help for the eyes an over the receiver scope mount or a mount attached to the rear sight base?

Would it be accurate to assume that the total cost would be significantly greater to mount over the receiver VS. mounting on the rear sight base?

Who produces a good scope mount that attaches to the rear sight base on the Swedish Mauser and do you know its cost?

Which good scope mount that attaches to the rear sight base on the K98 do you prefer and why?

What LER scopes as well as over the bore scopes and POWER do you think deserve first consideration for my applications?

What would you project to be the cost difference between mounting optics on a Swedish Mauser VS. a K98?

Thank you for sharing you experience and insights.

 

[jjk308 In Memoriam RIP]

Most receiver scopes that provide an acceptable shooting position require a lot of work. tapping, bolt handle forging/welding, safety.
I'd go with a scout scope setup - a medium to long( pistol) scope on the rear sight base. They go on easily with little or no damage and the only drawback is a restricted field of view.
S&K has a series of no-tap mounts, both receiver and scout. But as I said the receiver mount position, without a lot of work, isn't my favorite.
http://www.scopemounts.com/
Power depends on what you want to do. I prefer a low power for hunting in the Eastern woodlands. Westerners might think differently.
For target as high as you can handle and keepa good steady view of the target.
No opinion on scope brands as I dont have anything less than 15 years old - but I've usually gotten acceptable use from cheaper scopes and the price seems to go up too fast with increases in quality.

 

[RiverRaider68]

Larry---For my older eyes and not wanting to drill and tap my CE 43 I got a Dual Purpose Scope from John Zhu(Accumounts) very easy to install and has proven to me to be worth the $89 I paid for it . Gives you the option to use a regular scope or if you want a scout scope. I used a Sightron 3-9x40 with good sucess but have a K6x38 ordered for it. The LSRs are good but are a costly option. The Accumount option $89 for scope mount $28 for Millet Angle Lock Rings and abt $130 for the scope.

http://home.comcast.net/~yzhu/accumount/

Regards
Art

 

[LarrysGrip]

You've talked me into it

I'm becoming inclined, with your's as well as others' persuasive argument, not to modify my milsurps because of the cost factor.

For now, it seems the Scout Mount, is the way to go. I have heard good things about Accumounts, Iron Elite, and S&K Mounts. Does anyone have other recommendations or preferences for mounts and rings to fit the Swedish M38 or German K98? Don't forget the Swede!

Scout rifle guru, Jeff Cooper, indicates that 2x is the optimum power for this set up. Fixed power should give the widest field of view. I'm seriously considering getting a few of these to scout mount my rifles:

Weaver Classic Handgun Scope 2x 28mm Dual-X Reticle Gloss @ $134.99 closeout price.

Tube diameter: 1 inch
Objective diameter: 36mm
Ocular diameter: 36mm
Adjustment click value: 1/4 minute of angle
Eye relief: 14 to 29"
Field of view at 100 yards: 21'
Lens coating: Multicoated
Length: 8.5"
Weight: 6.7 oz.

Notes:
Waterproof, fogproof, shockproof. Primary use is competition.

Warranty:
Limited Lifetime Warranty: Warrants the product to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for as long as the product is owned by the original owner.

What do you think about a 2X fixed power? This unit not only comes highly recommended for handgun and scout mount set up, but it also has 1/4" click adjustments which would be better for my main hobby of target accuracy with milsurp rifles. Do you think these purchases would be a wise at this time? Thank you.

 

[bxn65]

Be skeptical of published pistol scope eye relief figures; many will require you to hold your eye farther back than you'd like. If possible, check the scope before you buy.

I have a Thompson Center scope that is a pain to use. OTOH, I have Simmons, Leupold, and Burris pistol scopes that work well as scout scopes. Cheap scopes like NC Star and BSA also generally have correct eye relief. The last Weaver I examined had incorrect eye relief, but other Weaver models may be OK.

The S&K scout mounts are among the best out there. A little pricier than B-Square and some others, but worth every nickel.

As to magnification, for accuracy testing and load development I want all I can get. My favorite is a discontinued Burris 7X with target knobs and adjustable objective. Don't hunt anymore, but if I did I probably would want something in the 2X to 4X range. The advantage of the scout set up is fast target aquisition, so you want to keep the magnfication low.

Also, keep in mind that most pistol scopes are designed to be parallax-free at 50 yards--too close. Cheaper scopes are more likely to have unacceptable parallax beyond 50 yards (big surprise) than the better ones. I have a couple Simmons 4X scopes which I sent back to Simmons to be adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. They did not charge me for this service. I have a 2X and a 4X Leupold, and both were virtually parallax-free out of the box. But they weren't cheap.

 

[LarrysGrip]

....keep in mind that most pistol scopes are designed to be parallax-free at 50 yards--too close. Cheaper scopes are more likely to have unacceptable parallax beyond 50 yards (big surprise) than the better ones. I have a couple Simmons 4X scopes which I sent back to Simmons to be adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. They did not charge me for this service....

Very interesting. Today the UPS truck brought two Weaver Classic Handgun 2.5-8X28 scopes along with S&K mounts. These are long eye relief scopes which will work with a Scout Mount application over the rear sight base. No rifle modifications are necessary. How can one tell if a scope is parallax-free at 50 or 100 yards? Thanks.

 

[oneshotman]

S&K mount...nope

I've had no luck with S&K. My no4 mk 1 303 shoots 1" groups (hand loads) with peeps at 100 yards. It's all over the place with the S&K mount and scope. I've done everything I can including JB weld around the side and back for extra support.

QUOTE=jjk308;56000]Most receiver scopes that provide an acceptable shooting position require a lot of work. tapping, bolt handle forging/welding, safety.
I'd go with a scout scope setup - a medium to long( pistol) scope on the rear sight base. They go on easily with little or no damage and the only drawback is a restricted field of view.
S&K has a series of no-tap mounts, both receiver and scout. But as I said the receiver mount position, without a lot of work, isn't my favorite.
http://www.scopemounts.com/
Power depends on what you want to do. I prefer a low power for hunting in the Eastern woodlands. Westerners might think differently.
For target as high as you can handle and keepa good steady view of the target.
No opinion on scope brands as I dont have anything less than 15 years old - but I've usually gotten acceptable use from cheaper scopes and the price seems to go up too fast with increases in quality.[/QUOTE]

 

[jjk308 In Memoriam RIP]

I've had no luck with S&K. My no4 mk 1 303 shoots 1" groups (hand loads) with peeps at 100 yards. It's all over the place with the S&K mount and scope. I've done everything I can including JB weld around the side and back for extra support.

I once made a No. 4 Mk1 sporter, with scope, (back when the rifles were $25), using an old Weaver mount similar to the S&K. It went on very tight and I got 1 inch groups. Until after about 4 rounds when the barrel started heating up and the "group" traced a shallow S shaped curve about 8 inches long! Apparently this was also a problem with the No 5 "jungle carbines".

You might try reinstalling the scope mount with shims to get it tight - I recall mine being very hard to get into place, had to use a rubber mallet. If that fails switch scopes. I've had one go loose and be impossible to zero.

 

[bxn65]

Parallax. Place the cross hairs on the target. While looking thru the scope, move your eye side to side or up and down slightly. If the cross hairs appear to move on the target, you have parallax at that distance. Unless you can place your eye in exactly the same spot for each shot, you will have a different POI each time. For most hunting situations it probably won't matter; for accuracy testing it might.

The adjustable objective on my Burris allows me to set the scope to be parallax-free at any distance.

 

[davef]

They make a no tap mount for the .303 that lets you use a conventional scope.

 

[tomb]

The CAD-TEK (sp) mount works with standard scopes for the No.4's
I've got one of the mounts and it works well.

Tom

 

[LarrysGrip]

A variety of milsurps can be accurate. My personal favorites are those from Sweden particularly the M38 and M96 in 6.5x55 which is not only an amazingly accurate caliber but its present use in the Olympics is a testament to the inherent accuracy of that historic round. The craftsmanship of the Swedish rifles is legendary. I fell in love with the Swede as a lad and never got over it. I would like to use my 6.5x55 for hunting and my informal target shooting.

Looked at the S&K web site and was impressed at its homey, simple, clear, straightforward descriptions.
http://www.scopemounts.com/instaprice.html

I've heard of them but the site gave me a lot of confidence to buy. Just put one on Obendorf K98 plus a Husqvarna M38.

Results are very satisfying...

 

[db2044]

Out to 200yds, a scope makes little improvement over iron sights unless you jump to high magnification.
Low power and low quality only seem to make problems worse when you enter into all the variables of proper scope mounting, optics, and perfect alignment.
I am fiddling around with a sniper rifle, 8mm Hakim, that Bubba put a scope mount on.
Aside from the many technical problems with getting the scope to maintain perfect zero, I did experiment with several scopes on it.
Only when jumping up to my current Barska 8-32X44 tactical scope did I find what I wanted, something I could see the holes in the paper at 200 yds, and I use it cranked up to 32. At full power, I can see and hit a 50 cent piece on the berm at 240yds.
It's not all that much more advantageous over what we routinely do with iron sights, which are not effected by temperature changes and loose screws and constantly trying to get perfectly zeroed.

If you really want to do something for yourself, fix your eyes not the gun!
I started to develop cataracts at 54. Having been extremely nearsighted all my life, I lived with coke bottle glasses and contacts as thick as the plastic disk under the Coke cap since age 5.
My options were simple, implants or a cane and seeing eye dog!
Crystalens implants changed my life!
No, they are not 100% foolproof and the doc goofed on getting perfect 20-20. He ended up having to correct one with Lasik ending up +0.5 far sighted in one eye and -0.5 in the other but, all in all, it is the best vision I have had my entire life! Colors came back to life! I can see sharp as an eagle at distance. I can see and hit a soda can at 250 yds with iron sights!
The implants allowed me to return to the hobby of shooting which I had to set aside for over ten years.
Since the implants, I am back to regularly shooting pistol and rifle with great enjoyment that would have not otherwise been possible!

See an eye care professional who specializes in variable focus lens implants and find out what they can do for you.
It is a new world of vision well worth whatever the cost!