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I remember when Onstar first came out I said something to my friends about not liking the idea of satellite tracking on my car. One guy replied that our cell phones do the same thing. My reply was that I could always throw the cell phone out the window. I've been leary of technology like this, and most people that I tell that to think I'm paranoid.

On another note I remember that a DJ on a morning show had just got an Onstar equipped car and just wanted to try it out. He pushed the button and said something about running low on gas and that he needed to know where the closest gas station was. The operator told him where the closest place was and then said something to him about his/her computer monitor showing that the car had 3/4 tank of gas.

It won't be long before some groups start wanting these controls on every car to keep people from speeding, etc.
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #3
It won't be long before some groups start wanting these controls on every car to keep people from speeding, etc.

That is already on the list - to keep people safe of course.
 

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Quote ;
One guy replied that our cell phones do the same thing. My reply was that I could always throw the cell phone out the window.

:) Just take the battery out.
 

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I recall a couple of years ago that a rental agency in Nevada, I think, had their cars equipped with GPS tracking which they said was to make sure people didn't take them out of state. What a number of people failed to realize was they were also monitoring how the cars were being driven and in the fine print of the rental contracts was a clause that said customers must drive the speed limit and would be fined if they exceeded the speed limit. One guy drove to California at 90 miles an hour and was presented with a bill for something like $1000.00 for the rental fee plus penalties. He sued the company, and If I remember correctly, the court said it was a violation of privacy and he won.
 

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Most people who buy OnStar-equiped GM cars think they can get around the GPS tracking by not subscribing to the service --- WRONG! OnStar has a passive, non-service, mode that can - and will - track your vehicle. I would bet that if you had a GM vehicle with OnStar, did not subscribe to it and unhooked the transmitter antenna, within an hour your home phone would ring and it would be OnStar asking if there was anything wrong with your car!

Also, the ability to transmit data about your vehicle over OnStar already exists. The computers under the rear seats on new GM vehicles records everything your car does - running or not! This information has already been used in several court cases by the judge ordering the info read by a dealership. Be afraid -- be VERY afraid! :eek:
 

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Apparently becuase the spectrum is going away soon, all the older (pre-2004 IIRC) OnStar units are going to be bricked unless they are retrofitted (which a dealer will happily do for $300) so thats one less worry.

My concern is that in the not-too-distant future, law enforcement will be able to call in a license plate to get a VIN, then have OnStar arbitrarily shut them down pre-emptively. Even more in the future, government entities would be able to say "Okay, its a smog alert, *yoink* nobody is starting their car today"
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #8
I think that you have given a glimpse of the future.
 

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Yup.

Yet another reason to hold on to my classic cars...

DD
 

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Just don't buy an OnStar equipped car!!!

What's the big deal... you have to WANT the service they provide and PAY for it. Just don't have it installed! It's simple, don't buy a car that has it. And if you are worried about triangulation of your mobile, just turn off the GPS, it's right there under "Tools"... no "conspiracy" here, just selling you services.
 

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LE has already admitted to using GPS (even when turned off) to track "suspects."

They've also used the phones as listening devices, even when turned off.

The only solution is to remove the battery.

DD
 

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I'm designing an aluminum foil cover for my car, to match my beanie.
 

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You too??

Gotta use the extra-thick foil, though. Preferably in multiple layers.

JJ, you gotta know how hard it was not to suggest your beanie would look better than your avatar pic....

;)

DD
 

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Let's see the source of that phone GPS admission etal.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/02/0415209

http://www.news.com/2100-1029-6140191.html

Reading can be hard for some folks -- here's a news video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O61YfvPZGJs&eurl=

I don't talk out of my @$$. If I think, I will say so. If I say "I believe" it is a belief. "Seems to me" is another qualifier.

If I say something positive, as in a factual statement, without qualification (as I did in this case) you can be sure I have it on pretty good authority.

DD


PS: Google is your friend.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cell+phone+off+mafia+listen&btnG=Google+Search

Might help save some face by avoiding you calling BS and being wrong.
 

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The Wasteland

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/02/0415209

http://www.news.com/2100-1029-6140191.html

Reading can be hard for some folks -- here's a news video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O61YfvPZGJs&eurl=

I don't talk out of my @$$. If I think, I will say so. If I say "I believe" it is a belief. "Seems to me" is another qualifier.

If I say something positive, as in a factual statement, without qualification (as I did in this case) you can be sure I have it on pretty good authority.

DD


PS: Google is your friend.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cell+phone+off+mafia+listen&btnG=Google+Search

Might help save some face by avoiding you calling BS and being wrong.

Look ... I know you are not a total idiot but where did I call your statement BS? Sorry, you can't find that with Google... you are probably not old enough to remember that old newspaper line, but I apply the same to the vast made-up wasteland called the Internet.
 

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... where did I call your statement BS?
"Let's see the source..." seems to be a challenge of the veracity of what I'd said.

If I misread, mea culpa. Fatigue and other crap could certainly have given me a hair trigger.

That said, it would have been a lot harder to misread "Where'd you find that" or "would you mind posting a link?"

$0.02

DD
 

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Prozac Helps! Ask your Doc...

"Let's see the source..." seems to be a challenge of the veracity of what I'd said.

If I misread, mea culpa. Fatigue and other crap could certainly have given me a hair trigger.

That said, it would have been a lot harder to misread "Where'd you find that" or "would you mind posting a link?"

$0.02

DD
...and you have CCW? Watchout for you! But aside from your volatile "hair trigger" nature; what I asked IS what I asked... nothing more! If it was more, I would have used "quotes", italics, possibly a different color and the most obvious would be CAPS! You don't generally seem to be this insecure. You did see the headline...no? But the articles explanation is not "magic" as I figured and they stated: software must be downloaded or a phone must have an actual bug transmitter placed in it AND it doesn't work on all phones; only phones that can download software.
 

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...and you have CCW? Watchout for you! But aside from your volatile "hair trigger" nature; what I asked IS what I asked... nothing more! If it was more, I would have used "quotes", italics, possibly a different color and the most obvious would be CAPS! You don't generally seem to be this insecure. You did see the headline...no? But the articles explanation is not "magic" as I figured and they stated: software must be downloaded or a phone must have an actual bug transmitter placed in it AND it doesn't work on all phones; only phones that can download software.
Surely you comprehend the difference between smarting off on an internet forum and carrying a handgun.

As to the headline -- no, I'd actually missed it. "Show me -- I don't believe it" doesn't seem to be far from my initial interpretation. In any case -- I already said "mea culpa" -- it would be good if you'd move on.

As to the rest of it, there's no "magic" involved. Simple technology. You may note that those articles and vids were over 18 months old. Show me a current model phone from any major carrier or manufacturer that's not capable of downloading software -- I don't think there are any. IF so, they're definitely in the minority.

The fact is that the capability is there, and has been used as I said. The only solution is to remove the battery -- as I also said. There have already been serious concerns about hackers being able to exploit this ability, and several cases where it looks like that has occurred.

Further -- back on topic -- OnStar has also been used to eavesdrop on conversations in vehicles -- even vehicles who had not subscribed to the service -- and without possibility of knowledge by the parties in the car.

I can also tell you that many secure facilities have banned cell phones outright, and that where not completely banned they are often banned from conferences where sensitive or proprietary topics are discussed.

This is not paranoia, but rather prudent security measures in light of the possibility for corporate and state espionage.

I'm not suggesting you should worry about it -- odds are noone cares about your discussions -- but those who need to know should.

DD
 
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