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The subject has already been covered in various threads, but I just want to import the stickies for now. Alexander

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airdale
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
933 Posts
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 11:50:35 AM
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This has long been a controversial subject, but due to safety issues involved, it needs to be objectively addressed.

I have overheard several times at gunshows conversations between a seller and a prospective buyer of these rifles. The propective buyer that seldom knows anything about these rifles will ask "What kind of ammo do I shoot in it?" and the seller will usually reply "You can shoot any 6.5 Carcano ammo in it." While this statement is true it is also misleading. What the sellers do not normally tell the buyer is that these conversions were done on obselete rifles that were designed for black powder cartridges.

Due to the age of these rifles and their being originally designed for black powder pressures and not knowing how many rounds of military ammo that has been fired in them plus some of these conversions not being very well done I personally and everyone I know that owns and shoots these do not fire any military surplus or commercial loaded ammo in them. I also think that firing any Hornady .268 dia. Carcano bullets whether factory or reloaded is flirting with disaster as most of the bores on the ones I have slugged measures .266. I have in the past reloaded .264 dia. jacketed bullets with starting loads with no problems but after observing some rifles at gunshows with hairline cracks on the bolts I no longer do this.

I started conversing with another board member that also likes to shoot these rifles but has the same safety concerns as I do came up with a mild cast load that is basically data taken from the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual for the 6.5 Carcano. Instead of using the Lyman 129 gr. bullet we subsituted a .266 dia. hard cast gas checked bullet that is available from Leadheads www.proshootpro.com with the powder charges listed for the 129 gr. bullet in the Lyman manual. This bullet when loaded with 8.0-10.0 grs. Unique powder gives 1300-1500 FPS and is very mild and fun to shoot. The recoil and noise level is not much different than a .22 LR and shows no pressure signs in our rifles.

Keeping in mind that these conversion rifles do not have the accuracy to neuter a spider at 100 yds. they do shoot fairly well. Both of mine will shoot 4" - 4 1/2" groupes at 100 yds with the 130 gr. cast and 8.7 grs. Unique but I have to hold the sights on the bottom L/H corner of the target to get the rounds in the bullseye. These rifles have no windage adjustment, just elevation and most I have seen shoot high with the rear sight set on the lowest setting so most people that shoot these have to learn where to hold the sights on the target.

Please be aware that I am not posting this to tell anyone what ammo they should or should not shoot in their conversion rifles but only to provide some information about these rifles and some safety issues one may want to consider before choosing the ammo to fire in them. Also use the reloading data at your own risk. The data has proven safe in our rifles but due to headspace or other mechanical issues it may not be in your rifle.

please feel free to post comments or your reloading and shooting experiances with these conversion rifles.


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Edited by - Capt Zorro on 07/08/2007 8:16:11 PM

Merle
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1849 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2007 : 12:16:01 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by airdale

This has long been a controversial subject, but due to safety issues involved, it needs to be objectively addressed.

I have overheard several times at gunshows conversations between a seller and a prospective buyer of these rifles. The propective buyer that seldom knows anything about these rifles will ask "What kind of ammo do I shoot in it?" and the seller will usually reply "You can shoot any 6.5 Carcano ammo in it." While this statement is true it is also misleading. What the sellers do not normally tell the buyer is that these conversions were done on obselete rifles that were designed for black powder cartridges.

Due to the age of these rifles and their being originally designed for black powder pressures and not knowing how many rounds of military ammo that has been fired in them plus some of these conversions not being very well done I personally and everyone I know that owns and shoots these do not fire any military surplus or commercial loaded ammo in them. I also think that firing any Hornady .268 dia. Carcano bullets whether factory or reloaded is flirting with disaster as most of the bores on the ones I have slugged measures .266. I have in the past reloaded .264 dia. jacketed bullets with starting loads with no problems but after observing some rifles at gunshows with hairline cracks on the bolts I no longer do this.

I started conversing with another board member that also likes to shoot these rifles but has the same safety concerns as I do came up with a mild cast load that is basically data taken from the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual for the 6.5 Carcano. Instead of using the Lyman 129 gr. bullet we subsituted a .266 dia. hard cast gas checked bullet that is available from Leadheads www.proshootpro.com with the powder charges listed for the 129 gr. bullet in the Lyman manual. This bullet when loaded with 8.0-10.0 grs. Unique powder gives 1300-1500 FPS and is very mild and fun to shoot. The recoil and noise level is not much different than a .22 LR and shows no pressure signs in our rifles.

Keeping in mind that these conversion rifles do not have the accuracy to neuter a spider at 100 yds. they do shoot fairly well. Both of mine will shoot 4" - 4 1/2" groupes at 100 yds with the 130 gr. cast and 8.7 grs. Unique but I have to hold the sights on the bottom L/H corner of the target to get the rounds in the bullseye. These rifles have no windage adjustment, just elevation and most I have seen shoot high with the rear sight set on the lowest setting so most people that shoot these have to learn where to hold the sights on the target.

Please be aware that I am not posting this to tell anyone what ammo they should or should not shoot in their conversion rifles but only to provide some information about these rifles and some safety issues one may want to consider before choosing the ammo to fire in them. Also use the reloading data at your own risk. The data has proven safe in our rifles but due to headspace or other mechanical issues it may not be in your rifle.

please feel free to post comments or your reloading and shooting experiances with these conversion rifles.


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Greetings,

I have a batch of Leadhead bullets on order, and now have everything else required to start loading for the VV 70/87/15.

I do have one question about the Unique loads; do you use a filler of any type? I suppose I should have asked sooner, but it just occured to me last night.

Thanks, and have a good one.



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Merle


airdale
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
933 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2007 : 1:32:26 PM
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Merle, I do not use any filler with the Unique loads.


Merle
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1849 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2007 : 2:03:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by airdale

Merle, I do not use any filler with the Unique loads.

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OK, thank you.
Just trying to keep out of trouble!
Have a good one.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Merle


airdale
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
933 Posts
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 10:20:50 AM
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There is an excellent article written by John Sheehan (JPS) in the Sept. 2007 issue of Guns Magazine that provides a lot of information on the 1870/87/15 or 16 conversion rifles.

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Edited by - airdale on 07/12/2007 10:08:39 PM


Merle
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1849 Posts
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 5:37:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by airdale

There is an excellent article written by Jonn Sheehan (JPS) in the Sept. 2007 issue of Guns Magazine that provides a lot of information on the 1870/87/15 or 16 conversion rifles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Thanks.
I'll be looking forward to it.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Merle
 
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