While it might be considered to drop every posting on these into one "mega-thread", I think that the different issues
- of safety concerns,
- of range reports and reloads,
- and of collectors' observations
might as well remain separate, for better oversight.
Carcano
* * *
Don Francis
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 8:30:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a batch of Century’s 7.9 M38’s arrive today, very grimy, have to check bores and headspace when I get a chance. Received one with the serial number of 24. The importer's marks I could make out under the grease were Century Arms with the old St. Albans address.
DMinFla
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 9:41:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may want to check the firing pins on your 8mm carcanos you got as i friend of mine just got one last week and the firing pin was cut off so you could not shoot it.
Bill Davis
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 03:04:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got 3 of them a few years back, and two would close easily on a Field gauge. I swapped bolts and got it down to 1. I also had extraction problems, as in, they WOULDN'T, I hadda drive a rod down the barrel. I tried polishing the chamber but was afraid to go too far, since the headspace was iffy to begin with.
DMala
Posted - 10/16/2003 : 4:02:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the sample number 24, is the stock number matching? Any letters by the numbers on the stock? Thanks
Carcano
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 06:27:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One further interesting detail, which I have also observed: the different front sight blades.
Hambone
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 12:45:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My question is where did these come from? It is my understanding that the 8mm conversions came from the Middle East. If this is so, would this indicate that the two reinforcement lug Carcanos may be postwar? If I remember correctly, mine has a '41 date on either the underside of the barrel or receiver, and is a nonimport marked TS.
alpine18
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 1:18:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read on one of the other boards that these had come from Israel.
Hambone
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 7:51:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Israelis must have taken them away from someone they defeated, such as the Syrians or Egyptians. I cannot fathom the Israelis issuing such a weapon, even to second line units. I know they used converted Kar.98k's, and those were profusely available post 1945.
Carcano
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 8:03:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tend to share Hambone's assumption.
Hambone
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 11:09:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has probably been beaten to death, but would this tend to indicate that these were converted postwar from the mounds of Carcanos likely in Italy and North Africa, or surplussed to Egypt, Syria, etc., from unused WW2 stocks of rifles converted pre-1945 but unused? It sure would be nice to get some first hand, documentary evidence. This debate has been going on for ages. Did I miss anything since the 80's and 90's re solving this puzzle (definitively)?
Frank
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 03:17:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Many of these were obviously issued and used in some country that uses the Arabic language(Farsi?). The best bet is captured and sold by Israel. Hopefully, some one will find a note or scrap of newspaper under a butt plate or in a barrel channel to give us a hint. Can anyone read this?
no more accessible
Download Attachment:
92.15 KB
Also notice that Don's rifle has the 7.9 stamping rather than the 7.92 as shown below.
no more accessible
Download Attachment:
96.28 KB
Carcano
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 05:20:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano
ken giller
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 4:56:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My one 8mm carcano TS (my first Carcano also) was bought about 5-6 years ago. The store owner didn't even know what it was except that he'd take $35 for it. Curious about it I was able to contact Richard Hobbs and described the rifle to him. Only markings on it were serial # 0603 and 7.9 on the rear sight. Stock is also marked RA 0603. He said it was made at FNA Brescia and these were "made" in this caliber not converted. Since he was much more knowledgeable about these rifles, I took his word on it. Still, I'd like to know if these were converted or actually made in this caliber.
mauserdad
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 6:49:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I find just as interesting as the rifle is where are all the 8mm clips?
Hambone
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 8:41:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mauserdad
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 10:54:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hambone, a couple of years ago I bought one of the Springfield sporter 8mm Carcano. I made myself a clip for 8mm ammo out of a steel 6.5 clip. It worked. But I also remember having to change or install a 6.5 clip latch to work with the 6.5 clip. It would be interesting for someone to check their 8mm and see if it has a clip latch and if it does compare it to a 6.5 clip latch. If different then I would say there is or was 8mm clips. Just a thought. Now that you mentioned it I think there was am article about this in KCN.
ken giller
Posted - 12/24/2003 : 01:17:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was curious about my 8mm TS and could not remember if there were any markings on the underside of the barrel so I took it apart for a closer look. Nothing, except for a very small shield with a sort of cross stamped by the opening next to magazine area.
Mauserman38
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 10:49:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
whats the story on these? were they made new in 8mm? were they converted off of M91's?(i heard the reglar m38's are) does the sn of RB970(gun#1) and 2276(#2) give aclue to when they were made? another is who used thes in 8mm? gun #2 has only a crude 7.9(rear sight) and just a serial number on the barrel shank, while gun #1 has a neat 7.92 (rear sight) and FNA-R on the top of the barrel shank, and that crown type thing on the right side.also the front sights are rounded in the front and pointed in the back. thanks for help
Carcano
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 10:49:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concerning the 8mm conversions:
There are several "series" distinguished by the caliber indication and by the style of serial numbering. The shape of the digits is also different from earlier Carcanos.
It is presumed that were were converted in Brescia (since one of these "series" is but the continuation of the previous 6,5mm Moschetti TS numbering style), and Dick Hobbs also notes Terni (at least the 1941-XIX series). Also, sometimes the RA or RB is part of the barrel number and sometimes this letter prefix is only found on the stock. A more thorough study would be desirable.
Frank
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 7:41:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carcano, Thanks for the translation and the transliteration. The fact that this is marked as a training rifle, helps explain the well worn stock but with a near perfect bore. I guess it helps to have "training rifles" in a cartridge that is readily available in case one really, really needs to shoot them.
- of safety concerns,
- of range reports and reloads,
- and of collectors' observations
might as well remain separate, for better oversight.
Carcano
* * *
Don Francis
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 8:30:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a batch of Century’s 7.9 M38’s arrive today, very grimy, have to check bores and headspace when I get a chance. Received one with the serial number of 24. The importer's marks I could make out under the grease were Century Arms with the old St. Albans address.
DMinFla
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 9:41:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may want to check the firing pins on your 8mm carcanos you got as i friend of mine just got one last week and the firing pin was cut off so you could not shoot it.
Bill Davis
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 03:04:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got 3 of them a few years back, and two would close easily on a Field gauge. I swapped bolts and got it down to 1. I also had extraction problems, as in, they WOULDN'T, I hadda drive a rod down the barrel. I tried polishing the chamber but was afraid to go too far, since the headspace was iffy to begin with.
DMala
Posted - 10/16/2003 : 4:02:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the sample number 24, is the stock number matching? Any letters by the numbers on the stock? Thanks
Carcano
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 06:27:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One further interesting detail, which I have also observed: the different front sight blades.
Hambone
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 12:45:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My question is where did these come from? It is my understanding that the 8mm conversions came from the Middle East. If this is so, would this indicate that the two reinforcement lug Carcanos may be postwar? If I remember correctly, mine has a '41 date on either the underside of the barrel or receiver, and is a nonimport marked TS.
alpine18
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 1:18:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read on one of the other boards that these had come from Israel.
Hambone
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 7:51:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Israelis must have taken them away from someone they defeated, such as the Syrians or Egyptians. I cannot fathom the Israelis issuing such a weapon, even to second line units. I know they used converted Kar.98k's, and those were profusely available post 1945.
Carcano
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 8:03:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tend to share Hambone's assumption.
Hambone
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 11:09:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has probably been beaten to death, but would this tend to indicate that these were converted postwar from the mounds of Carcanos likely in Italy and North Africa, or surplussed to Egypt, Syria, etc., from unused WW2 stocks of rifles converted pre-1945 but unused? It sure would be nice to get some first hand, documentary evidence. This debate has been going on for ages. Did I miss anything since the 80's and 90's re solving this puzzle (definitively)?
Frank
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 03:17:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Many of these were obviously issued and used in some country that uses the Arabic language(Farsi?). The best bet is captured and sold by Israel. Hopefully, some one will find a note or scrap of newspaper under a butt plate or in a barrel channel to give us a hint. Can anyone read this?
no more accessible
Download Attachment:
92.15 KB
Also notice that Don's rifle has the 7.9 stamping rather than the 7.92 as shown below.
no more accessible
Download Attachment:
96.28 KB
Carcano
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 05:20:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. "Ta'alîm", meaning "training, practice" (the apostroph in the transliteration designates a consonantic "ain", not a glottal-stop "hamza").
Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano
ken giller
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 4:56:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My one 8mm carcano TS (my first Carcano also) was bought about 5-6 years ago. The store owner didn't even know what it was except that he'd take $35 for it. Curious about it I was able to contact Richard Hobbs and described the rifle to him. Only markings on it were serial # 0603 and 7.9 on the rear sight. Stock is also marked RA 0603. He said it was made at FNA Brescia and these were "made" in this caliber not converted. Since he was much more knowledgeable about these rifles, I took his word on it. Still, I'd like to know if these were converted or actually made in this caliber.
mauserdad
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 6:49:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I find just as interesting as the rifle is where are all the 8mm clips?
Hambone
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 8:41:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent question Mauserdad, and one that's been kicked around for quite some time. I believe MRJ and/or even an old KCN newsletter addressed the mystery, but no definitive answer was forthcoming, other than it was surmised these were all single shot only (i.e., wood block in the magazine). I seem to recall someone alledging that they owned one of these, however, I think that person removed it from the tiny backpack of a rare and mysterious jackalope found deceased on I-10 somewhere near a Texas truckstop. The jackalope is known to inhabit scrub brush around canteens and lounges after 0200.
mauserdad
Posted - 12/23/2003 : 10:54:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hambone, a couple of years ago I bought one of the Springfield sporter 8mm Carcano. I made myself a clip for 8mm ammo out of a steel 6.5 clip. It worked. But I also remember having to change or install a 6.5 clip latch to work with the 6.5 clip. It would be interesting for someone to check their 8mm and see if it has a clip latch and if it does compare it to a 6.5 clip latch. If different then I would say there is or was 8mm clips. Just a thought. Now that you mentioned it I think there was am article about this in KCN.
ken giller
Posted - 12/24/2003 : 01:17:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was curious about my 8mm TS and could not remember if there were any markings on the underside of the barrel so I took it apart for a closer look. Nothing, except for a very small shield with a sort of cross stamped by the opening next to magazine area.
Mauserman38
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 10:49:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
whats the story on these? were they made new in 8mm? were they converted off of M91's?(i heard the reglar m38's are) does the sn of RB970(gun#1) and 2276(#2) give aclue to when they were made? another is who used thes in 8mm? gun #2 has only a crude 7.9(rear sight) and just a serial number on the barrel shank, while gun #1 has a neat 7.92 (rear sight) and FNA-R on the top of the barrel shank, and that crown type thing on the right side.also the front sights are rounded in the front and pointed in the back. thanks for help
Carcano
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 10:49:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concerning the 8mm conversions:
There are several "series" distinguished by the caliber indication and by the style of serial numbering. The shape of the digits is also different from earlier Carcanos.
It is presumed that were were converted in Brescia (since one of these "series" is but the continuation of the previous 6,5mm Moschetti TS numbering style), and Dick Hobbs also notes Terni (at least the 1941-XIX series). Also, sometimes the RA or RB is part of the barrel number and sometimes this letter prefix is only found on the stock. A more thorough study would be desirable.
Frank
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 7:41:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carcano, Thanks for the translation and the transliteration. The fact that this is marked as a training rifle, helps explain the well worn stock but with a near perfect bore. I guess it helps to have "training rifles" in a cartridge that is readily available in case one really, really needs to shoot them.
