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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We knew it was coming, and today he signed the Executive Order closing Guantanamo Bay and suspending all military tribunals.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN21485084

While I can understand the necessity to close the prison, it would have been nice if he'd had a plan in mind before doing so. Now what do we do with the prisoners?
 

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Actually, he had a MOTION filed requesting that the tribunals suspend trials for 180 days while his legal folks review the situation and (if necessary) seek new legislation.

Don't know about an EO closing Gitmo, will have to look into that.
 

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Unless he can find an isolated, well secured area of the US to house terrorists, he shouldn't close it down.

I've got no problem with sticking battlefield-pickup terrorists in Guantanmo, but the prison can be used to house "non-combatants". Since the President, under the Military Commissions Act of 2006, can now declare anyone he wants an enemy combatant, I find this to be quite a catch-22.
 

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Brigadier General Greg Zanetti just returned from Gitmo and ran the day-to-day ops. He was on the radio this morning talking about GTMO, what goes on and what his take on things are.
He is known around Abq...
Here is the audio link if one cares to listen, it's pretty interesting.

http://www.abqradio.com/770/Podcasting/BC/09-0121.mp3
I think it will play on a web browser. It plays on mine...

He has a web page;
http://gregzanetti.com/index.html
 

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No EO closing Gitmo, it appears. Not yet anyhow. Only a draft, that may or may not be signed, and if so, may or may not be (I'd guess "not be") in the form somebody leaked to Reuters.

If it were up to me, I'd release the detainees. All of them. Unconditionally. Coordinates of release point: 10000 meters altitude at the point the Prime Meridian intersects the Equator. Parachutes would not be provided, not PFDs. Up to them to figure out how to get from the release coordinates to the place they want to establish permanent domicile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, it appears the news I was watching jumped the gun. No EO today, but it certainly is a top priority for the new prez.

There are a lot of legal issues concerning the closing and what will be done with the detainees. From what I've been reading, it appears that the countries of origin of most of the detainees do not want them back.

Our courts are not prepared to hear these cases, nor do they have the proper authority. Even SCOTUS appears perplexed as to how to handle them. Guantanamo serves a very real purpose that has nothing to do with torture. We cannot label these detainees as POW's per the Geneva Conventions, yet we can't and shouldn't let them go. The best suggestion I've heard from associates in national security law, is that we need to form a new court system specifically to deal with issues pertaining to the war. One that is part civilian, part military; with rules that can address the security issues inherent in such trials. As much as Obama wants to close down the camp, it's going to take a long time to come to a conclusion as to what will be done in Guantanamo's stead.
 

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From what I've been reading, it appears that the countries of origin of most of the detainees do not want them back.
As you may be aware, there have already been extensive consultations with other countries (mostly of the Global North) as for an asylum for these ex-gulag prisoners, especially for those victimized who cannot return to their home countries. I understand that several countries already have pledged their support in this respect to the new USA, and their willingness to receive some of the detainees.

Guantanamo serves a very real purpose that has nothing to do with torture.
This assumption of non-correlation is not correct. Neither for Guantanamo, nor for the Gulag, nor for the KL-System. Nobody has called the former "irreal" anyhow, as your formulation could imply; for all these indeed served a "very real purpose" - a despicable and reprehensible one. :-(

Carcano
 

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A reasonable compromise would be to send the " enemy combatants" back to Afghanistan and Iraq to be tried by the civilian governments there. The results would be swift and final.
Flakshield
 

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I say we make all the pinko commie reds who want it closed to become foster parents to these terrorists. We could house at least 4 terrorists per pinko commie reds house. Carcano we'll start with you. What's your address, we'll send'em right over.
 

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A reasonable compromise would be to send the " enemy combatants" back to Afghanistan and Iraq to be tried by the civilian governments there. The results would be swift and final.
Flakshield
The danger with that is, the President can now declare anyone an enemy combatant.
 

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As you may be aware, there have already been extensive consultations with other countries (mostly of the Global North) as for an asylum for these ex-gulag prisoners, especially for those victimized who cannot return to their home countries. I understand that several countries already have pledged their support in this respect to the new USA, and their willingness to receive some of the detainees.



This assumption of non-correlation is not correct. Neither for Guantanamo, nor for the Gulag, nor for the KL-System. Nobody has called the former "irreal" anyhow, as your formulation could imply; for all these indeed served a "very real purpose" - a despicable and reprehensible one. :-(

Carcano
There will come a time in the not so distant future where you'll wish the those detainees and others had a place to go like GTMO as they roam old europe looking for infidels.
Wait, they are already over there.
Do you hear the call to prayer where you live Carcano?:)
 

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A "gulag" ? I didn't realize we were executing them.

Anyway, I live 20 minutes south of the federal prison in Leavenworth. I can tell you we in Kansas don't want them here. I'm hoping the other great countries of the world will step forward and accept these wayward souls. Check out this report about those that returned to their past ways:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Regards
 

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Great idea pcan! I'll even make a donation to help with the transportation costs. The old europe lawyer should have the means to provide them with the comfort to which they've become accoustomed.
 

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Here's some Afghani justice for you:

"More than 120 prisoners are now waiting for the president to sign off their executions.
The executions, especially of sex attackers, have been praised by many Afghans who complain of a culture of impunity allowing even war crimes to go unpunished if the culprit is well connected or can pay a bribe.
Four men were hanged on Tuesday in a Kabul prison, including three convicted of crimes including the murder of an intelligence director and attacks on UN offices. The state broadcaster said they had been caught with weapons and explosives.
A fourth man had been convicted of poisoning and killing relatives in Kabul and stealing from them. Five other men were executed this week for murder, rape and abduction"

I am sure they would welcome a few more from Gitmo.
Flakshield
 

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A certain number of the persecuted will indeed receive asylum in Europe. We have to help the recovering USA now, haven't we.

Carcano
If America is so bad , why are your people moving here in droves ? Hell , my little bitty old south town has had at least a dozen of your families move here in the last year alone . None have a single good thing to say about it . All good people mind you , mostly business owners , yet all they do is trash europe & praise the United States of America , The land that has given them so much to be Thankful for .
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
As you may be aware, there have already been extensive consultations with other countries (mostly of the Global North) as for an asylum for these ex-gulag prisoners, especially for those victimized who cannot return to their home countries. I understand that several countries already have pledged their support in this respect to the new USA, and their willingness to receive some of the detainees.
Yes, I believe Switzerland is one of a handful of countries willing to take the detainees, and keep them as prisoners.

This assumption of non-correlation is not correct. Neither for Guantanamo, nor for the Gulag, nor for the KL-System. Nobody has called the former "irreal" anyhow, as your formulation could imply; for all these indeed served a "very real purpose" - a despicable and reprehensible one. :-(

Carcano
I do not agree with the comparison to the Gulag, but I can see how you would interpret Guantanamo as such. It is because of this view that it has been suggested to form a new court of military/civilian origin, with civilian oversight. But the fact remains that the US has no facility or state willing or able to house detainees who pose the level of threat to our national security as detainees captured in this war.

Guantanamo serves the purpose of a 'POW' camp in a war where POW's (aside from Allied Forces) do not exist. As Mauserboy pointed out, the President can assign the term of 'combatant' to any detainee. If I recall correctly, this was due to a signing statement of Bush, one that Obama will most certainly ignore and probably repeal. The fact remains that these detainees deserve habeas and a trial, but our court system is not equipped to handle such cases. Nor is our penal system. The closest courts we have that are suited to such a task are courts martial and military tribunals, the latter of which have been suspended, regardless of the fact that SCOTUS was the court that recommended using military tribunals.

What is needed is the formation of this new court, and a serious revisit to the Geneva Conventions (which lacks the ability to address many of the issues associated with the new kind of war).
 

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it sickens me to think that we would treat prisioners of WAR, accused of being suspected taliban etc... like ordinary prisioners. Ordinary prisioners dont sit arround and plan the demise of the entire U.S. nation.

GTMO is a joke, we have every serviceman and women walking on eggshells because they are afraid of the repercussions of our own people. I havent heard of any violence being put towards the guards or men running the prision(which is there), just the rather mild abuse coming from soldiers which is blown way out of scale. when you hear about north korean prisions it pales in comparison to how people talk about gtmo. we will never win another war until we can conquor the politics of the bleeding hearts, and the media.

these are terrorists, and if they werent when they went in they are now, so leave them there.

cuba is the perfect place for this prision sicne wherever we house these terrorists will become a major target, and i for one am not willing to house these people in my neighborhood.
 
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