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Would I be correct in saying that the North China Type 19 rifles were made in captured Chinese factories under the control of the Japanese? It appears that they were made in 6.5mm, starting out as reasonably nice guns, and then devolved into pretty crude guns before reverting to nicer configuration in 8x57. Seems to fit the story of Japanese control, accelerated emergency production, and then after Japan's defeat reverting to Chinese control to supply the Nationalists. Any glaring problems with that narrative?

I recently acquired a very crude (but very nice condition) example of a 6.5mm, and am trying to find out more about it...
 

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You have it as correct as we can determine. Chinese sources now indicate they were made in Peking (Beijing) at the North China Arsenal rather than Tientsen as we had previously thought. Still now reliable historical documentation.

Very interesting carbine. Great find.

Frank
 

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Wait, does this not have a rear sling loop or even a provision for one? If so, that's interesting.

Very nice carbine. I've been looking for one of these for quite a while, as I'm sure that many other Japanese, WW2, and Chinese rifle collectors are too. They aren't easy to find. I have located a few, but the sellers have been trying to sell them for several thousand dollars for years (and of course, they just sit).
 

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Thanks, Francis! It was any easy find, because it came from my father's collection. :) I need to pick up a copy of your book, I just haven't had it in the library budget yet...

Correct, shmlnaaa- there is no evidence of any provision for a rear sling attachment - and the front band isn't really set up to hold a sling either, although it could if it had to.

Anyone have any idea why they went to the Type 30 design when they went to 8mm?
 

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Wait, does this not have a rear sling loop or even a provision for one? If so, that's interesting.

Very nice carbine. I've been looking for one of these for quite a while, as I'm sure that many other Japanese, WW2, and Chinese rifle collectors are too. They aren't easy to find. I have located a few, but the sellers have been trying to sell them for several thousand dollars for years (and of course, they just sit).
Unless you find one that someone does not know what they have; that is the price.
 

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Dear ForgottenWeapons:

Can you give me the bolt number and perhaps the number under the receiver if you have taken it apart? This is for my ongoing records of this Type 38/99 variation. Thanks.

Frank
 

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Unless you find one that someone does not know what they have; that is the price.
I've seen others pop up occasionally for more reasonable prices and they and the buyers knew what they were (albeit still quite expensive for a bolt action WW2 rifle), it just wasn't in my budget at the time to acquire them sadly. Why pay $3K+ when a little patience will net you an example for much less? Plus, I'm not made out of money, there are far more rare and more important pieces for my collection than one of these that I could put $3K-$4K towards. I know for a fact that other collectors feel the same way because they have been sitting for years. Ironically, one of the guys I know of that has one for "sale" increases the price on it slowly. I think he sets up at shows more to show off stuff and acquire stuff for his collection rather than actually selling anything. I've never seen him sell a single rifle in years.

The price is what they can be sold for, not what people are asking. They are not THAT rare that one or two guys can set the entire market price for them.
 

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A book was mentioned. Is there a book on these? Where can I find one?
The Type 38 Arisaka; it is most excellent. One of the authors of it post above you ITT.


Thanks, Francis! It was any easy find, because it came from my father's collection. :) I need to pick up a copy of your book, I just haven't had it in the library budget yet...

...
You should really make it one of your priorities IMO. It's one of the best reference books I've encountered, and the best for the Type 38 (which is such a broad topic that it really does need it's own detailed book, as that book definitely is).

I don't have any experience with the Type 99 book, but the book The Early Arisakas that covers the Type 30 and others is, though much shorter than The Type 38 Arisaka, relatively inexpensive (downright dirt cheap for a reference book really) and on par with what to expect in quality detail and information wise from the more extensive The Type 38 Arisaka.
 

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Dear ForgottenWeapons;

Thanks for the number.

The North China Arsenal manufactured two carbines; the earliest is based upon the Type 30 action and is in 8mm. These have receiver tops stamped with a Cherry Blossom only. They are covered in "The Early Arisakas". The later North China Type 19 is based on the Type 38/99 action as in 6.5mm Japanese. These are covered in "The Type 38 Arisaka".

Frank
 

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Dear ryg;

"The Early Arisakas" is available from Banzai, P.O. Box 6, Eva, AL 35622 for $18 PPD within the US.

"The Type 38 Arisaka" you can obtain from me at the address appearing below. $69.95 PPD within the US.

Thanks for your interest.

Frank
 

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A North China Type 19 just fell into my lap recently. It was my neighbor's and I think he or his brother brought it back from when they were in the war or after. They used it for deer hunting and sporterized the stock. There is no bluing on the metal or any paint but just bare metal thats petinaed. At first i thought it was an oddball type 38 but its too short to be one. well I finally figured it out that what I thought was jap symbols turned out to be Chinese and the "mum" was a cherry blossom. It shoots fine just the action is really tight. Payed 100 bucks for it. I was wondering what its worth even though the stock is sporterized. metal butt plate, no rear sight ladder.
 

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Dear Dino412:

Can you provide some pictures of this find? I am trying to keep records on them as part of an effort to determine how many were manufactured. Thank you.

We now have proof that these carbines were indeed made in Tientsin, as we first thought. See Banzai, May, 2018, pgs. 133 & 134.

Frank
 
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