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Mk II Cartridges Only for Webley-Greene Revolver

This is good information to know, as I've got a W-G target revolver which Mr. Sukey was able to date to 1895. Does anyone have the cartridge dimensions for the Mk II cartridge, to include case length and overall length? And a recommended load? I have a friend who loads Webley ammo. I will probably reload for my Webleys eventually--but right now I won't be shooting them enough to justify the cost of dies and a bullet mould. Not that I don't want to shoot them that much! Hmmmm. Reminds me of the time I was in Belgium, and was informed that to legally reload, I would have to get a permit to have an "ammunition factory." Well, I just kind of "forgot" about those instructions!
 

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[EDIT: Whoops - I didn't click on the link in your original post until after I had posted this reply - didn't realize it was a link to my own posting on the British Militaria Forums .... Hopefully the link to the diagrams of different case and projectile dimensions will be new info, at least. ;) ]

I can confirm that my WG Target in .450/.455 won't chamber the longer MkI case (which is what I use in all of my other .455 revolvers). As a result, although I've had the WG for two years or so, it is only very recently that I finally got around to loading up some ammo for it using MkII cases. Then, when I went to the range with it, I absolutely fell in love with the WG!!! It handles beautifully and is deadly!

The first picture below is the WG itself, and the second photo shows the results of a total of 35 rounds fired on one target at a full 25 yards on my very first firing of the revolver. The messy/fuzzy look of the outlying holes is because I was taping over holes with masking tape as I went along, and the outer holes represent the first shots I took, when I wasn't really trying to be particularly careful - in fact, I was testing 2 or 3 different loads (all Hogdgon Triple7 BP substitute) and also trying different holds on the revolver ...

Maximum horizontal spread is 5.25" center to center, while the greater vertical spread is attributable to the different loads - for example, the ten lowest holes (two low in the black, one just touching the black, and the rest below those) were the result of the hottest load (which was a bit too much Triple7, with the result that it was likely over-compressed). At any rate, that load was too "snappy", and predictably produced a lower impact point.

Once I saw what the revolver could do, and which load seemed best, I steadied right down and took care with the last ten rounds of that load, firing off the bench with the base of my hands resting on the wood - that produced the single large ragged hole you see centered low in the 10 and 9 rings! (The second 5-shot string out of those ten produced the holes centered low in the bullseye, after I had adjusted my aim up slightly. As you can possibly see from close examination of the photo, those were the only holes which didn't get taped over ....) The best load, by the way, was 10 grains (volume measure) of 2F Triple7 with 265 grain hollowbase .455 Webley bullet (RCBS special-order/limited production mould, as depicted in the third image below.)

If your WG has a good bore, it's unquestionably worth your time to get some suitable rounds loaded up and try it! (I know I'm definitely going to be getting a bunch more MkII cases!!!)

The only difference between the MkI and MkII cases is over-all length, so if all else fails you can just trim a bunch of what you've got to fit. The military spec OAL for the MkI cartridge case was 0.860", and for the MKII was 0.750" (plus or minus 0.010" for both.) Here is a link to a posting of some scans from "The Webley Story", showing the specs and dimensions of the cartridge cases and projectiles for the various British service pistol rounds, from the .450 Adams Mks I & II through to the .380 Mks I & II. Note that, for all intents and purposes, based on case-mouth diameter and effective diameter of the projectiles the various .450 Adams, .476 Enfield and .455 Webley cartridges were actually all .455's ...
http://p223.ezboard.com/fbritishmilitariaforumsfrm5.showMessage?topicID=56.topic
 

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The reason the case was shortened is that the original long case was intended for black powder. If you are intent on using MK I cases then you better look for a WG Target in 455/476.
 

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Ya like this one LOL



This gun chambers 45 colt cases is un altered. but its Marked 455/476 Lucky me!!!
 

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5.0 gr of Unique duplicates the original load. 250gr bullet
Got that from an old Lyman handbook (before they stopped listing the .455)
I bought the RCBS mould that casts the 265 gr Hollow base Webley bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This gun chambers 45 colt cases is un altered. but its Marked 455/476 Lucky me!!!
How about ejection of 45 LC cases from your 455/476 WG, has ejector star enough stroke to eject them. If I remembered correctly, Joel Black posted a picture of his WG that didn't have enough stroke to clearly eject 45 LC case. Thanks to all.
 

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How about ejection of 45 LC cases from your 455/476 WG, has ejector star enough stroke to eject them. If I remembered correctly, Joel Black posted a picture of his WG that didn't have enough stroke to clearly eject 45 LC case. Thanks to all.
Nope! but it works slick if ya just tip the gun to its side downwards they come out Pretty good!
I have a 1889 marked WG im loading for tonight it also chambers 45 colts and its the exact same thing downwards to the right and they all clear the cylinder.
I load 6 grs of Trail Boss with a special Sized .455 Keith type bullet 250 Gr. 45 colt Starline solid head cases!
These WGs seem to like keith bullets.
 

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Webley Mk VI has long chamber for Mk I. Would prefer to have same brass, made from 45 CS, just got 1000 pcs and friend agreed to make rim forming die.
The Mk6 NEVER shot anything but MkII ammunition. The Mk1 was long out of service by 1915.

Just as the 200gr bullet for the .380 revolver was obsolete by 1937 and never made it to WW2.
 

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Originally Posted by Onty:
Webley Mk VI has long chamber for Mk I. Would prefer to have same brass, made from 45 CS, just got 1000 pcs and friend agreed to make rim forming die.
Originally poster by John Sukey:
The Mk6 NEVER shot anything but MkII ammunition. The Mk1 was long out of service by 1915.
John, never say "never"! ... ;)

From the introduction of the MkI Webley, all British .455 service revolvers up to and including the MkVI Webley were intentionally chambered the same (i.e. even after introduction of the MkII cartridge) so that they could accept and fire either .455 case version. Undoubtedly there were stocks of old MkI cartridges kicking around for years ... (including the earliest cordite loads (first introduced 1894) which continued to be loaded in the longer case before the decision was made to shorten it (1897) for better performance ... so I'm sure that many a MkVI Webley fired MkI ammunition ...
 

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Doubtful unless in training or private purchase.

Oh, and I believe I am the am the originator of that "never say never" phrase, dating back to the old Gun and Knife forum.

I did come up with the one about Pakistani .303
"Drill rounds that ocassionaly surprise you by going off"
 
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