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Alan, many thanks for your posting that information.

THe logic of a bayonet for Sten or any SMG escapes me. Its laughable actually.

Any infantry soldier will validate a rifle with bayonet is the only solution if a bayonet is necessary.

My UZI has a bayonet stud...anyone got a war story of bayonets on Uzi's winning the day ...?
I did talk to a WW2 seabee vet who was running a bulldozer on a pacific island. Apparently several japs came out of a cave and the shooting started. He ran our of bullets ( M1 carbine ) and used his M4 carbine bayonet to kill the guy. He said they sure were small little people ( he was about 6'1" )
 

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That spike bayonet was a real retro move on their part, cheap to manufacture no doubt, good for sticking people, was designed to fit on their entrenching tool as a mine probe (!),
good candle holder.
 

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I got a No.7 bayonet for not much money that had the ring neatly ground off. Done in service? Probably not. Perhaps someone wanted a knife and not a bayonet.
Regards
Peter.
 

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I HAD a No 7 bayonet. Used it during the hand to Hand demonstration while instructing RECONDO training at the West Point summer camp. At the end of RECONDO training apparently some West Point cadet needed the No 7 more than I did. So much for Duty and Honor. John
 

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Far from being an afterthought, the spike bayonet was the product of a Committee set up in 1922 to consider a new rifle and, as a sub-committee, to look at the specification for a new bayonet.
It was apparent from the lessons of WWI a 'handier' bayonet was superior to a long cumbersome weapon. The Pattern 07 had been useful as a toasting fork and for odd jobs but failed in most respect.
Although the 07 could deliver a nasty wound, it was poor for penetration and worse for withdrawal.
The conclusion reached by the sub-committee was that a 6" blade was suitable for purpose and could 'handle' the thickly clad Russian in winter clothing which was the perceived likely enemy at the time.
The suggested bayonet for the future Mk VI rifle was one about 8" in length, without the need for a handle and cross piece. It would be lighter and superior in penetration and withdrawal.
Following a series of test models, the No4 MkI was officially approved on 15th November, 1939.
For my part, I do not think of any of us felt or had the need for a bladed bayonet, perhaps a decent knife would have been handy for other purposes.
But, so far as flash goes, here are a few No7's - different makers/markings. Ignore the date we're not that far ahead.
3817180
 

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The logic of any bayonet escapes me frankly... Particularly on a bull-pup rifle like the L85/A1/A2/A3... The Australians managed to fit one on their iteration of the Steyr AUG, while the Austrian Bundesheer was content to put a barbed wire cutting thingy on the muzzle of first, the Stgw. 58 and later the Stgw. 77...

With Great Britain, I think bayonets are a cultural thing. They conquered much of the desirable real estate on the globe with rifles so fitted, so like the Empire, the sun must never set on the bayonet? It was the bayonet-equipped Brown Bess that allowed them to defeat the red shanked Heeland clansman after all....
With regards the bayonet for the British L85, a real design faux pas, but then it had to be to keep up with the rest of the pigs ears of designs. The handle of the bayonet was so constructed that it could be comfortably (?) hand held and used as a utility/combat knife. The handle part conveniently fitted over the flash eliminator, the forward part of the handle having slots so as to correspond with slots in the flash eliminator. It does not take to many brain cells to work out that in this configuration when the weapon is fired the handle gets a tadge warm, good old British understatement there. Pretty much seen as a lump of useless extra weight to carry so wasn’t.
 

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They did the same stupid trick with some of the the FAL bayonets.
It worked almost as well too.
3817290
 
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I know the snappy drill of the Coldstream guards and all that kind of thing relied on having the bayonet fixed... And the shortness of the SA80/L85 necessitated an entirely different drill... The Czechs just used the old VZ52 rifle rendered into a drill rifle with the bayonet fixed... The Vatican Swiss guard uses halberds, but keeps SMGs and whatnot hidden from faithful worshippers.

No one got the memo that for snappy drill, the good old SKS is tops!

I did once get to see the Royal 22e Regiment--"Van Doos" what with their mascot goat Batisse X and so on do their snappy drill with white leather stuff and the sights removed from their service rifles and bayonets fixed.

Also, something like half the Spanish armed forces doing all their crazy marching steps and silly walks and goat mascots (for the Foreign legion anyway...) and fixed bayonets.

So in the 1920s the British adopted the French "knitting needle" or "Rosalie" puncture bayonet designed to go through the Boche wool uniform and leather equipment straps... But shorter. The French merely removed the handle from the bayonet and shortened it, and turned it wrong side round into a little tube for storage when not being used as a mine probe...

About the only thing the Bundeswehr retained from the ex-NVA of the DDR was the bayonet/ field knife that could be used with its scabbard as a pair of wire cutters... I note that most bayonets over time have become more field knives and less spear-like, witness the M9 Phrobis III kalashnikov-style bayonet versus the M7/M6/M4 style of fighting knives/bayonets for M16s, M14s, and M1 carbines respectively.
 

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The Galil pop-bottle opener was an excellent feature.
 

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It was only to stop the Izzies using the bolt & extractor for the beer ration though!
 

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The P1907 bayonet was-like our M1905-designed to give the infantryman extra reach to defend against cavalry. The M1892/96/98 Krags had an 8" knife bayonet. It often seems the idea of the bayonet doubling as a knife is a rather American concept.
 

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I did talk to a WW2 seabee vet who was running a bulldozer on a pacific island. Apparently several japs came out of a cave and the shooting started. He ran our of bullets ( M1 carbine ) and used his M4 carbine bayonet to kill the guy. He said they sure were small little people ( he was about 6'1" )
I'm curious, did the seabee have the bayonet attached to his carbine, or was it used as a fighting knife in his hand? I have read that M4 bayonets were issued for use as knives before carbines with bayonet lugs were issued. As far as I know, carbines with bayonet lugs were issued only near the end of the war, and so were probably not used much in combat. If the seabee's bayonet was attached to the carbine, the incident you relate may have been one of very few in which the carbine with bayonet was used in combat in WW2.
 

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I think they used the magazine feed lips to do that.
Gwyn
Its possible. The way I heard the tale there was a sudden rash of FTE's from the field. When they tried to replicate at base workshops they couldn't duplicate it. After several attempts they sent someone up to the front to observe & found them popping the bolt & carrier, flipping the tip with the bolt face & extractor & re inserting it.
Lord only knows how true it was, but never underestimate the ingenuity of a thirsty squaddie!
 
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Would have you know the perfected Aussie clasp knife would have both a bottle opener AND corkscrew, no need for a bayonet.
Well, the Aussies are some of the folks who've actually used bayonets for their intended purpose more than a few times, no? Bottle opener is a great idea though.

In the US, supposedly the first open-type flash suppressor of the M16 was used with the barrel as a prybar to snap off sheet metal strapping on crates and pallets... to the degree that barrels got bent.
 

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I bought a repro. STEN bayonet to mount on my STEN. Granted the bayonet on a STEN is pretty much useless but for a visual scary effect it just might cause a scared young enemy soldier to break and run or surrender.
 

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We know the mid 50's issue No4Mk2 rifles were issued with a spike bayonet.

We know the bayonet for the No.4MkI in WWII was a spike bayonet.

Thus some time after 1945 and 1955 this No.7 bayonet was developed and
issued.

My question is why was it developed , seems to be more a parade ground design than a functional bayonet attached to the rifle . Anyone shot his rifle with one of those hanging on it ?

The No.7 is a strange beast. Was it really issued to units for field or operational use ? Cypress, Malaysia, ..anywhere ?
These beasts all over gun shows in the 60's sans scabbards. There is an early Korean War book (1951) The Face of War , Charles & Eugene Jones, Prentice Hall NYC - no ISBN.
Pages 144 shows a Corporal of the Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders attaching a No. 7 to his No. 4 Enfield. On P.145 he is in a line of troops waiting to and then charging. Another photo on p.149 shows another trooper with a N0. 7, cannot tell if this is the same trooper- the area where his corp. stripes would be is obscured. No clue whether this is an individuals quirk or a random field test.
All other troops seen have spike bayonets. As a bonus, p.140 shows a Squaddie carrying an M-1 Carbine ! I recall reading in a couple of places that these were designed for the British EM2, have seen photos of them attached to the EM2. Britain Miniatures issued a set of English soldiers in full kit carrying the EM2 with No. 7 bayonet sometime in the early 50s before we dragooned the British into dropping the 7mm for the 7.62x51 NATO. The English never waste anything so it's not unlikely they'd reuse them for parade. An ex English soldier i met in the 80's told me his outfit had been issued 1916 dated wound dressings while in Ireland in the 70's.
 

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An ex English soldier i met in the 80's told me his outfit had been issued 1916 dated wound dressings while in Ireland in the 70's.
More likely WW2 dated dressings because there are plenty of WW2 dated ones about on the surplus market. You just don't see WW1 dated dressings.

With regard to the No7 bayonet I just assumed that it was designed by a committee with each member of that committee having an equal right to have "their idea" incorporated into the final design of the bayonet.
 
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