I just purchased my 1st Martini Henry, a Mark IV in 577-450. I have been looking and asking questions on different forums about loads and components. Some people use BP and would never use smokeless, others say that smokeless isn't a problem. I was wondering about a starting load that won't harm the rifle or me, also that some of my smaller framed family members could shoot. I have some IMR3031 and Trail Boss for smokeless powder, but the only BP I have is 3f, I understand that 3F is to fine for 577-450. I cast .458 bullets for my 45-70 so I have a good supply of those right now. I want to thank everyone in advance for any and all help and suggestions.
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Try starting at the sticky at the top of the forum posts.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1112-Loads-for-the-Martini
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1112-Loads-for-the-Martini
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Welcome Clarke, we love photo's here and would love to have a look at your purchase.
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Clarks 359,
Welcome to this forum. Many very knowledgable folks here, so you will get lots of help. Just a couple of caveats for you right off the top. The 577-450 cartridge is difficult to load for in that it has a lot of room inside that is not friendly to smokeless powder, so please be sure to read the stickys regarding reloading for this rifle. Also the nominal bore size for the MK.IV seems to be closer to .466 which means that your typical 457-459 bullet will not usually work very well. Slug your bore to determine what size the bore is to be sure. I have learned more practical information from this forum than I have from references that are available on the Martini-Henry. Welcome aboard! Joe
Welcome to this forum. Many very knowledgable folks here, so you will get lots of help. Just a couple of caveats for you right off the top. The 577-450 cartridge is difficult to load for in that it has a lot of room inside that is not friendly to smokeless powder, so please be sure to read the stickys regarding reloading for this rifle. Also the nominal bore size for the MK.IV seems to be closer to .466 which means that your typical 457-459 bullet will not usually work very well. Slug your bore to determine what size the bore is to be sure. I have learned more practical information from this forum than I have from references that are available on the Martini-Henry. Welcome aboard! Joe
Thanks to everyone for the replys.
Fred2892, I read the sticky for the loads, but they all seem to be full power loads or equal the military load. I was wondering if any one had a "starter or target" load that wasn't as stout in the recoil department.
Muffett.2008, As soon as I get the camera back from my wife I will try to get some pictures posted. That would make it easier to ID this rifle for sure.
Joe, Thanks for the welcome. I'm starting to understand why most people only use BP, it seems to be the safeist to use with less chance of a malfunction. I havn't slugged my barrel yet, but I put my .458 bullet in the muzzle nose first and it stopped at the first band. Do you think I could patch that bullet up and do better?
Once again thanks to everyone for all the help.
Fred2892, I read the sticky for the loads, but they all seem to be full power loads or equal the military load. I was wondering if any one had a "starter or target" load that wasn't as stout in the recoil department.
Muffett.2008, As soon as I get the camera back from my wife I will try to get some pictures posted. That would make it easier to ID this rifle for sure.
Joe, Thanks for the welcome. I'm starting to understand why most people only use BP, it seems to be the safeist to use with less chance of a malfunction. I havn't slugged my barrel yet, but I put my .458 bullet in the muzzle nose first and it stopped at the first band. Do you think I could patch that bullet up and do better?
Once again thanks to everyone for all the help.
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There are multiple issues with bullet size and composition for the 577/450. First off, the unique Henry rifling removes a lot of metal, leaving the minor diameter about a true .45, but the major diameter .466 - .468. In addition they have a long throat, which of course is even wider. The bottomline for Brit military issue MH rifles, a bullet diameter of .468 to .470 (the typical .002 over major diameter) will work best. Bullets can of course be patched up to that and indeed the original was paper patched. The large size of the 577/450 case is a problem for reduced loads, whether smokeless or BP. The case is already grossly oversized for use of smokeless to BP pressure, so reduced loads make it all the more so. Use of BP down to 70 grains is readily done with a fiber filler, such as cotton, wool or kapok. Since recoil is a function of both powder and bullet weight, patching up the dirt common .457 405 grain bullets and use of 70 grains of BP greatly reduces felt recoil and maintains a velocity sufficiant for reasonable accuracy. It must be said, however, that the vast majority of shooters have found their most accurate loads are in the range of the military load. After all, that is what the rifle was developed to shoot.
The free recoil of the MH has been overstated. It is no greater than the vast majority of military rifles (and a lot less than some) up through WWII. However it was designed to be shot from standing or kneeling position where the body moves with the rifle, and not a bench.....which of course many if not most shooters start from. Stock design did not consider modern ergonomics at the time and we must work with what they gave us. If bench shooting, a little padding goes a long way in reducing the bite of the buttplate.
The free recoil of the MH has been overstated. It is no greater than the vast majority of military rifles (and a lot less than some) up through WWII. However it was designed to be shot from standing or kneeling position where the body moves with the rifle, and not a bench.....which of course many if not most shooters start from. Stock design did not consider modern ergonomics at the time and we must work with what they gave us. If bench shooting, a little padding goes a long way in reducing the bite of the buttplate.
Rich,
Thanks for all the help and info. I think I will start with a patched .458 bullet and the 70grs BP. Once I get more acustomed to the rifle and loading for it I may try some different loads. Which grade of BP would be best, 1F,1.5F,2F etc? From what I've been reading I can use a fiber filler(batting material) over the powder charge, just don't compress the filler. Then insert the wads, 1 card,1 grease cookie or greased felt, then a card wad under the bullet? I hope I got that right. I'm used to shooting WWII rifles, Garands,Enfields,Arisakas so the recoil shouldn't be a problem. Once again thanks for all your help.
Thanks for all the help and info. I think I will start with a patched .458 bullet and the 70grs BP. Once I get more acustomed to the rifle and loading for it I may try some different loads. Which grade of BP would be best, 1F,1.5F,2F etc? From what I've been reading I can use a fiber filler(batting material) over the powder charge, just don't compress the filler. Then insert the wads, 1 card,1 grease cookie or greased felt, then a card wad under the bullet? I hope I got that right. I'm used to shooting WWII rifles, Garands,Enfields,Arisakas so the recoil shouldn't be a problem. Once again thanks for all your help.
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It sounds like you are on the right track. Folks use 1F through 2F with similar results. From my experience, I can tell little difference in accuracy or velocity across my chronograph. Supposedly Swiss 1.5F is as close to the original as you can get, but I question just how important that is except for folks seeking to shoot as close to original as possible. Good luck with your loads.....and if you haven't patched before, remember to patch with paper with some rag content and without clay (the stuff that makes "slicks" slick).
Rich,
Thanks for the help. I'm still waiting for my brass and dies to arrive. I'm hoping I can go to the range this weekend, just have to wait and see. I still have to find some BP locally. I noticed you live in WV, I work in Huntington, how far are you from there? Could you tell me what diameter and thickness of card wad I should use? Once again thanks for all your help and info.
Thanks for the help. I'm still waiting for my brass and dies to arrive. I'm hoping I can go to the range this weekend, just have to wait and see. I still have to find some BP locally. I noticed you live in WV, I work in Huntington, how far are you from there? Could you tell me what diameter and thickness of card wad I should use? Once again thanks for all your help and info.
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Regretably I live in the eastern panhandle near Martinsburg, just about as far away as one can get without leaving WV. However if you ever find yourself wandering around this neck of the woods, all BP cartridge shooters are always welcome at our farm. I use plain .45 cards (which are .462 diameter and .030 thick), as sold by most reloading sites/shops http://www.midwayusa.com/product/63...liber-462-diameter-0030-thickness-bag-of-1000 . The purpose of the cards is to seperate the base of the bullet from the rest of the load, so thickness really isn't critical as long as they hold up to firing.
Rich,
Thanks for the link and the invite. Yes that is about as far apart as you can go in this state. One day maybe we can work something out about getting toghter. Once I have all the components I will try some loads and see how it goes. Once again thanks for everything.
Thanks for the link and the invite. Yes that is about as far apart as you can go in this state. One day maybe we can work something out about getting toghter. Once I have all the components I will try some loads and see how it goes. Once again thanks for everything.
Martini henry
I finally got my brass and dies on Friday, didn't get a chance to load any rounds this weekend. I think I finally figured how to load pictures, at least I'm going to try. Thanks to everyone for all their help and info.
I finally got my brass and dies on Friday, didn't get a chance to load any rounds this weekend. I think I finally figured how to load pictures, at least I'm going to try. Thanks to everyone for all their help and info.
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