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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Chumak's new book is now available: АК-47. История создания и принятия на вооружение Советской армии

I just ordered it, but it will probably take more than a month before it's in my hands. Last parcel from Russia took 2.5 months to get here...

Who designed the AK is undoubtedly the most contested topic that overshadows by its intensity even the three-line rifle obr. 1891 discussion. I already know that the author is convinced Kalashnikov was the creator, but I am curious as to what documents support his views. Well, patience.
 

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That would be very interesting to read this book. Your disagreements with Chumak just add flavour to this topic. I'm sure you also read Chumak article on the pre-AK Kalashnikov works. IMO that article has showed how far away Kalashnikov ideas and works were from AK design. I know Chumak is very thorough with documents and looking forward to learn many new facts. The more I researched the topic the more I understood there's no way without facts of documents to make a solid conclusion on who was behind core elements of design. Maybe this book will help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Your disagreements with Chumak just add flavour to this topic.
So far I have no disagreements with Mr. Chumak regarding the AK story as I don't know enough on the subject.

I had disagreements with Mr. Chumak regarding the development of the three-line rifle obr. 1891, in particular the similarities between its bolt and the bolt of 1879 Hotchkiss.

3808716


3808863


And here are pictures of Mosin's copy of the 1879 Hotchkiss:

3808717
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
.... Chumak article on the pre-AK Kalashnikov works. IMO that article has showed how far away Kalashnikov ideas and works were from AK design.
Totally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Fyodorov's "avtomat" is interesting, although it had zero impact during WW1 being issued in very small quantities (8 full auto rifles in 6.5 mm Arisaka and 45 semi-auto rifles in 7.62x54). There is also the misconception that the 6.5 mm Fyodorov cartridge (never made in quantities) was an intermediate round. In fact it was more powerful than 6.5 mm Arisaka (data in Fyodorov's book "Small Arms Evolution"). Also almost all pictures dubbed 1916 Avtomat Fydorov show a later 20-s design. Mr. Chumak has a good article on Fyodorov's design.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
MPi-43 were first issued during late summer - early fall of 1943. By January 1944 20,000 MPi-43 were issued. Undoubtedly some of them were captured in 1943, no mass-issued weapon can be kept secret for long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It's the cartridge that got the Russians excited as much as the rifle itself.
It is rumored that the Soviet obr. 1943 cartridge is based on GeCo's 7.75x40 cartridge, developed before the war. The Soviets were probably familiar with it also before the war, being buddies with Hitler. Remember that the original obr. 1943 cartridge had a 41 mm case length. I hope to find more information on this in Chumak's new book.
 

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June 1943, if I'm not mistaken, Soviets got ahold of Mkb42 and four rounds of ammo. Found it. MKb42(H) #1334. There are earlier report about capturing #503, but no documents were discovered. #1334 is confirmed with documents.
But if one thinks that getting a sample or possessing the know-how is all that's required, then one is wrong. Biggest part is to create design that primitive Soviet factories with poorly qualified work-force would be able to manufacture and more importantly - that it would be reliable and simple and cheap firearm. That is where geniuses of Soviet firearm designers shine.

I had disagreements with Mr. Chumak regarding the development of the three-line rifle obr. 1891.
That's the disagreement I had in mind. Pictures of Hotchkiss rifle copy by Mosin were published by Chumak and IIRC at least 6 were made. What would not hurt and would definitey help are pictures of actions of all rifles considered, tried and manufactured under M's supervision. I'm not aware about Chumak stance on Hotchkiss design before book was published. I like how thorough he combs for the facts and documents. In some rare cases like this one I do not agree with his conclusions, in my opinion action similarities are astonishing. However, I'm just a collector and firearms history enthusiast, not even a researcher.
 

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That's the one I'm thinking about, Horilka. The early, undocumented one. I remember years ago it was a discussion on Guns.Ru forum that the Russians got a hold of one as early as '42. Interesting subject ether way. Thanks for posting the picture. Never seen that one before.
 
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