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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone. Last weekend I brought my Indochinois berthier to the small militaria show we have twice a year down here. There was serious interest in it from a lot of collectors and I had a bunch of offers but I wasn't there to sell it. I was hoping to find a bayonet that would fit it and somewhat complete the piece. I met up with a dealer whom I had become friends with last year when he sold me the Gras that I had been looking for. He looked over my rifle and directed me to this bayonet on his table. It is in beautiful condition and both numbers match on it. When I tried to fit this bayonet I was pleasantly surprised that it fit perfectly so I had to have it. He had a price tag of $150 on it but with shrewd negotiating I talked him down all the way to $100. Now I have a beautiful bayonet for my holy grail rifle.
 

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Hello, and a nice bayonet you have .It's a bonus to have matching numbers ,too. Does yours have an obviously wood handgrip, or does it have a composite grip? I haven't seen but heard tell that the late ones had something else on there. I think the composites were first, then wood, but someone here will know for sure. Good show on putting it together.
 

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The correct bayonet for these is the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890 Raccourci 1912 (Sword Bayonet Model 1890 Shortened 1912)

This bayonet is almost exactly the same as the Épée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886 but utilized a different type of locking mechanism that was located in the pommel which connected with the bayonet bar in the front of the firearm. It also featured a groove that extends down the left side of the bayonet grip to allow clearance for the brass-tipped clearing rod to fit in while attached. The bayonet used with the Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890 was called the Épée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890.
It was found that this bayonet was too long for the smaller stature soldiers of Indochina (Vietnam / Cambodia) so in 1912 these were shortened from 20.4"(520mm) to 16.5” (420mm) to better accommodate them and were to be called as Épée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890 Raccourci 1912 to be used with the Fusil de Tirailleur Indochinois Modèle 1902. These also were to have any exposed metal painted with a black enamel so they would resist rust better in the high humidity environment of South East Asia.

Patrick

Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890 Raccourci 1912
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow mine looks exactly like that minus the bronze grips. If I remember correctly the dealer had labeled the bayonet as a "Model 1892 Berthier bayonet" so I guess this would fall in line with your info 1886lebel.
 

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There were three different variations of the Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892 which underwent a number of changes during their time in service and are listed below.

The First (1st) Type (Premier (1ère) Type) was the original version which featured a muzzle ring that did not extend over the grips that were made of a hard black vucanized rubber grips called fibre noir that were affixed by two small pins. These type of grips are often called as 'bakelite' in collecting circles.
In 1905, wood (bois) was to be used for the grips as it was found that the bakelite grips were easily broken during service as they aged but for some reason this never got completely done. The grips were now to be affixed by much fatter pins and rivets.

Second (2nd) Type (Deuxième (2ème) Type), it was found that the bayonet was not secured on the front sight very tightly so in 1912 they modified the bayonet muzzle ring to extend 1/8 of an inch over the back of the grips to allow it to be better locked on the barrel and front sight. Both bakelite and wood grips were used with this variation.

The Third (3rd) Type (Troisième (3ème) Type) is easily distinguishable by the removal of the first third of the quillion during the manufacturing process, not cut-off as has been rumored. It is not know when exactly this process was done, some sources say it was done in January 1915, others say it was late September 1918.
It is believed that the partial removal of the quillion was for the same reason as the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886 was done, for 'trench' warfare and ease of manufacturing steps.
In 1915 wood grips were exclusively used and any of the bakelite grips that were brought in for repairs were to replaced.

Specifications: Overall Length: 21.25 in (540 mm)
Blade length: 15.43 in (392 mm)
Weight: .94 lb (425 g)
Scabbard Length: 16.25 in (412 mm)
Scabbard Weight: .47 lb (215 g)
 

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Wow mine looks exactly like that minus the bronze grips. If I remember correctly the dealer had labeled the bayonet as a "Model 1892 Berthier bayonet" so I guess this would fall in line with your info 1886lebel.
What you have is a Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892 Deuxième (2ème) Type

Patrick
 

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I have not found too many Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890 Raccourci 1912 here in the US for sale, when they do come up for sale, they go for BIG BUCKS.
The one I have pictured in my post above was acquired by my Aunt at a shop in Ho Chi Minh City when she visited her relatives there about 5 or 6 years ago.

Patrick
 

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Both styles are hard to acquire, last ones I saw sold for over $400.00, one sold for $700.00

Patrick
 

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Wow so I guess I stole that bayonet at $100 then. In any case I'm just glad I have a bayonet that will work for my Indochinois for now:thumbsup:.
Oh I was talking both the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890 and Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890 Raccourci 1912 are the prices above.
Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892 are on average $100 to $200.

Patrick
 

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The first time I saw an Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890 was in an antique shop in the old section of Tehran, Iran. It was in excellent condition and I think it was the long style. I did not buy it because I was alittle nurvous about their laws regarding export of antiques and thought I could always find one at home (never did.)

(Many thanks Patrick for this and your information about slings.)
 
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