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· Diamond+ Bullet Member
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1,650 Posts
Damn... sad thing is , if you stop--- they win. THey are hoping you will just drop it how about calling the NRA-ILA?
 

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I contacted the nra-ila in March. They want nothing to do with it. They must be of the opinion the law is a bad law. I have emailed them several times since then and today as well. They never return emails or calls. Which is strange considering they wrote the legislation. lol
 

· Silver Bullet member
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Well...the NRA-Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is most certainly NOT the group to handle this. This isn't their mission.

Instead try contacting the NRA proper directly and do it quickly. At the very least, file a motion of intent to appeal with the court, as you probably only have a few days to do so. This motion is likely a fill-in-the-blank document of one page. This will keep your options open to appeal. Then contact your state gun association, as well, and contact your local newspaper, too. Nothing the papers like better than to find an official who is breaking the law.

BTW, I tried to download the audio, but it said the available bandwidth was exceeded. This is a shame, as I would have liked to hear your argument and the judge's reasoning.

I have asked another member to take a look at this. I hope will lend us the benefit of his expertise.
 

· Silver Bullet member
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Interesting situation. What grounds did the State of TN use to justify a suspension of your CCW, especially as you were never charged with a violation of the law?

Also, I find the federal case to be interesting, especially regarding the defendants argument that the first officer who detained you let you go , even though he could "not could conclude that this weapon comported with a handgun carry permit," and "allowed [you] to continue walking, but kept [you] under surveillance" so he could contact Ward, his supervisor.

TCA 39-17-1351

(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.


I find it interesting to note that TN law requires that an officer, after disarming a handgun carrier during an investigatory stop, must "determine that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or any other individual or individuals, provided that the permit has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder" before he can return a handgun to a permit holder and release him. I feel this is an important point.

Prior to letting you go, the first officer was, in effect, required by law to determine that you posed no risk to yourself or anyone else, and that you had not violated the law, else he would not have been legally able to return your weapon. By letting you go free and returning your weapon, the first officer in effect made the determination that you were violating no law and posed no threat to anyone. As he undoubtedly informed Ward of his action in releasing you, this nullifies one part of Ward's defense of his subsequent actions, specifically that his actions were due to "reasonable concern" for the "safety of the public", and that he was reasonably "suspicious that [you] were acting unlawfully." It will be difficult for him to articulate the reasons for his suspicions, having just received a report from a fellow officer of the results of the first officer's investigation which revealed no violation of the law.

You are foolish, IMO, if you think you can argue this case successfully in federal court on constitutional grounds pro se. Federal constitutional questions require great finesse to argue effectively, and you must get an experienced lawyer to help you, lest you get trumped on some obscure procedural grounds. Just read the recent opinion of the federal magistrate ruling against the Montana Shooting Sports Association bid to overturn the GCA if you don't believe how complex these questions are. I hope you don't think you are a latter-day Clarence Earl Gideon, because if you do, it is likely that you will be outmaneuvered by the opposing attorney, and lose before the evidence is even heard in court.


Having said all this, get a good attorney and best wishes for a successful conclusion to your case!
 

· Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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105,315 Posts
At the very least, file a motion of intent to appeal with the court, as you probably only have a few days to do so. This motion is likely a fill-in-the-blank document of one page. This will keep your options open to appeal. Then contact your state gun association, as well, and contact your local newspaper, too. Nothing the papers like better than to find an official who is breaking the law.

Laws/rules governing appeals vary from state to state. These rules can be found online. Also, could ask the clerk or deputy clerk about the time limits and the form to use for an appeal. They may or may not be helpful, but it does not hurt to ask.
 

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I've contacted the nra grassroots and legal. I have left messages for heidi keesling who I think is in charge of TN. I spoke with Ben West in person, who is a member of the state house of reps, this evening and who sponsered the legislation. He said i was correct and the judge wrong.

I have 30 days to appeal. $1000 cash bond and $300 costs.


link to final order
 

· Diamond+ Bullet Member
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Kwikrnu,

I say do an NFA trust and thumb your noses at these folks. Capricious refusal for a CLEO to sign BATFE paperwork is a perfect reason to go the trust route.

If the proposed Transferee is otherwise qualified under federal law, and it's legal to own NFA weapons in your state, and you have a law similar to that in Alaska,

their case is Doo-Doo. Exactly how is that "Shall sign" statute "Un-constitutional? LOL

THey are hoping you will get tired of this and give up.

You have yourself a sheriff and DA that hopes you won't press the issue. How about contacting your state legislators ? Particularly the one that initially sponsored the bill in TN that made CLEO signatures SHALL issue (if qualified).

Your TN state Attorney general is supposed to enforce state Statutes. Send him a polite, well worded letter or E-mail explaining the situation, asking him to do so.

THe whole point here is that your state law Preempts local law. AS long as you are qualified under state and federal law, your sheriff HAS to sign your paperwork. THe fact that he doesn't believe in Civilians owning NFA items, or thinks you are a "Jackwad", of flat out doesn't like you, has no bearing. Obviously that really pisses off the Good 'Ol Boy Sheriff and the local DA.

YOu might contact you state Firearms association or Machine Gun (NFA) association. THey WILL have the manpower and finances to help. I would track down any of the NRA's Board of directors that may be from TN as well and make them aware of your issues

THis is a matter of principal and Law. PLease don't give up!
 
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