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Discussion Starter #1
Couldn't resist picking up another 91/30. This one is rather cool in that its bbl is a 1928 Tula, and the reciever is a 1927 Tula. A few of the bolt pieces appear to be remington. Also, the main spring was a silverish color rather than brass colored like all my other 91/30s. Nice looking stock too. Of my 4, this is the first one with absolutly no rust on bbl or reciever. Had some pitting which was fixed when refurbed.

Have 1 question. What are these stock markings? There was repair done on the stock, so wondering if it has to do what that, or if they are cartouches.

Thanks in advance!

Oh, for anyone in the Ypsilanti (MI) area, there is a 91/30 on sale this weekend in that Duhnams store with a serial number of 1 There are 2 cyrilic syombols in from, but all parts match. $79.
 

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I can't discern any stock markings from the photo, can you describe them?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
On last pic

On the last pic, they are those two small circles. Each one is probably .25 inches or so, maybe an inch or 1.5 inches apart.

I took the butt plate off and the stock repair was the whole lower rear corner. THat being said, I was wondering if these are tap holes to strengthen the repair, or if these are cartouces of some kind. Never saw them before, but I'm still relativly new at this.
 

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Those two circles may just simply be the marks left by the repair tooling, maybe the clamps from a vise.
 

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I can't really tell from the photos, but it sounds like a standard toe splice -- which often was done originally on Soviet stocks to save on material (using wood for stock blanks that would otherwise be too small). As for the markings, well, there are countless small wood markings that are simply unknown. Looks like a nice updated dragoon rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks. One more ?

Thanks for the responses. Just got around to the accessories. Looks like the sling and tool kit might be a little more modern than my others. The oil can still has liquid oil in it!

Can anyone give any color on where the ammo pouch is from (by the stamp inside). Also, one of the tools has a serial number and box with veritcal slash. Does that help?
 

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The pouch and sling (and I think oiler) are standard Soviet post-war. No idea on the location of the maker. The box-and-slash mark is a the Ukranian refurb depot mark.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks

Thanks again for sharing. Does anyone know if re-barrling was common?

Am also trying to understand dragoon coverts. I had thought 91's were longer. With the one I picked up, both the reciever and bbl are dated pre-1930, but the gun's overall length is an exact match to my other 91/30s. What are the main differences besides the sight in a 91 vs 91/30?
 

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M91 infantry rifle has a longer barrel than a 91/30. M91 dragoon rifle has the same barrel length as a 91/30.
 

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Mr. Flashy Pants
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M91 infantry rifles typically weren't converted to M91/30s, only Dragoons, and a few Cossacks. Technically they are M91 Dragoons and M91 Cossacks, but most collectors drop the "M91" when referring to them. Yours is an "ex-Dragoon" or "updated Dragoon". The fact that the receiver is a year earlier isn't unusual. Assuming that receivers were dated when they were made and barrels were dated when they were installed it's not surprising. If receiver production ran a week ahead of final assembly then about 2% of all rifles will have the receiver dated a year ahead of the barrel. Not saying that's exactly how it was, just illustrating the possibility. The "OTK" in the ammo pouch is a quality control mark. The translation is roughly "office of technical control".
 

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Hey Ted I was wondering about the production of 91/30/s prior to 1930. I was looking at your site and noticed you mention "Prototypes with M91/30 style rear sights were built concurrently with Dragoons from 1927 to 1929." Is there a way to determin if a 27-29 91/30 started out as a 91/30 or is a updated dragoon? Just curious.
 

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Mr. Flashy Pants
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Not that I've been able to figure out. Odds are any particular rifle is an ex-Dragoon although the chance of it being a prototype M91/30 go up the later it is. I have seen late '20s dated M91/30s advertised as "rare prototypes" and IMO that is outright fraud as there is no way to know, much less prove, that it was not originally built as a Dragoon. I would never pay more for one.

On the other hand, if you have a Dragoon dated 1930 to 1932, then that is something!
 
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