Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 408 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
786 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any members shoot a Carcano Fucili di Fantaria Modello 1860/67 needle ignition?

Self -obturating 17.2 mm cartridge very similar to the Dreyse n/A (neuer art), later to become the Patrone M/72 for the Beck transformation.

In place of the sabot, at the Minié bullet's base a culot that housed the primer and on ignition expanded the base to seal the bore on ignition.

As the cartridge is self-obturating, there is no seal at the breech. Hi-speed film does not reveal any gas venting at the bolt-breech juncture.

Guy and Leonard A-R-West
 

Attachments

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
12,058 Posts
I have only seeing one carcano needle rifle in 20 years. dont know if they are easy to find n italy but think not. do you have made a custom mould or use simply a round ball???
I don't know about the availability in Italy, but they are rare in the US. They were made in large numbers. I have always wondered what happened to them? :confused:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,066 Posts
Awesome! Could you post a few closeups of the bolt & the receiver?

Thank you for showing all these marvels!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
I had personal 4 (3 in Germany, one in France) neddle rifles in my hands in the past 20 years... one of them I own now.... I've searced these in Italy, too. But my fellows there did'nt find one...

I don't shoot my rifle, but may be???

Grüße

Peter

I don't know about the availability in Italy, but they are rare in the US. They were made in large numbers. I have always wondered what happened to them? :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
786 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Carcano pictures

Gentlemen,

Some pictures of the Carcano Fucili di Fantaria Modello 1860/67.

Collage:- shows the bullets and a couple of cartridges, bayonet and case forming tool.

Bolt removed:- the needle can just be seen in the guide slot. The large cocking piece also acts as a gas deflector.

Carcano breech:- action uncocked. The serrated knob in front of the trigger is for bolt removal.

Cartridge:- Duplicate cartridges, live and blank. At the base of the cartridge is a lubricated felt cup with a concentric cross-cut for ease of needle penetration and lubrication, also to allow for the following bullet to pass through. The cup acts as an obturator and after ignition is left in the origin of the rifling and pushed through the bore with the force of the bullet. Located under the bullet skirt, is a formed base expanding 'culot' which retains the primer. As with the Dreyse sabot, it is the fundamental part of the cartridge.

A mould conforming to the original bullet dimension was custom made.

We occasionally demonstrate the Carcano at Bisley along with the Dreyse and Mle. 1866 Chassepot. The Carcano is the slowest to operate and ballistically inferior to the other aforementioned systems. However, for rapidity, the Dreyse and Chassepot cannot compete with the Bavarian M/69 Werder Lightning Rifle.

A detailed and comprehensive shooting/ballistic evaluation on both the Carcano and the Mle. 1866 carbine is being prepared for publication in America for next year.

Guy and Leonard A-R-West
 

Attachments

·
Diamond Member
Joined
·
4,292 Posts
This is just really neat...really, really neat. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
763 Posts
All the neat stuff seems to show up over there. Thanks for the photos Guy and Leonard.
 

·
Platinum Bullet member
Joined
·
3,242 Posts
Nice gun, thanks for sharing.

I saw one at OGCA about 30 years ago.

It was pitted with a dark and dinged up stock.

I was interested because it was a Carcano but at $200, IIRC, it was way past my budget.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
786 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Carle needle ignition

Feurwerker,

Unfortunately, we have not been able to find a Russian Carle yet. If we chance across a decent one, it shall be a challenge to get it shooting again. We have been toying with the British copy of the needle rifle, but that is a project for the future - see attachment.

However, if you are interested, we have in our collection a couple of Dreyse Jägerbüchse M/65, a standard and Beck conversion with the Hirschfänger M/65, both of which takes the Patrone M/55 and M/72 respectively.

The Beck conversion ballistically enhances the Jägerbüchse M/65 to a velocity of 350 m/sec from 295 m/sec, which equals the Mle. 1866 Chassepot carbine.

Guy and Leonard A-R-West
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,486 Posts
well, I am not dissapointed that you dont find a Carle till now. there may not so many exist outside of the few in the museum's.
Zündnadeljägerbüchse is allways welcome by prussian hunter's. I was on the old shooting range Katharinenholz in Potsdam last friday that was also the home range of the Gardejäger long time ago now. is the barrel+receiver of your jägerbüchsen brauniert or is it patina?
I have a fun project to go, grab a chassepot carbine action+barrel fo small money and because its not possible to find the parts to make it complet again in my lifetime start building a Jägerbüchse in the style of the Zündnadeljägerbüchse.
its not ready but someday will shot again




sometimes later I found that also unusual ideas can be real
a franz v. dreyse civilian Jägerbüchse made with a Mauser M 71 action and the double set trigger of the M 65 Jägerbüchse
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
1,149 Posts
Speak of the devil.....

Just when we are saying these are rare as rocking horse doodoo, this little beauty pops up in my local area! Looks like a cavalry "moschetto" to me and has a sling bar on the left side. Curiously, the owner tells me it is a smoothbore, which I find hard to believe for a late 1860s firearm with an elevation adjustable rear sight. Did they convert smoothbores or did il bubba bore the rifling out?
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 408 Posts
Top