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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There are .22 military "Enfield" training rifles.
Is there a difference between the
Canadian "Long Branch - C N°7 Mk1"
and
the United Kingdom "BSA - N°7 Mk1" ?

Although it may seem an idiotic question, the problem is a legal one (in my part of the world that is).

I suppose, but don't know, that both training rifles are identical and the only difference is the "C" before the ID "N°7 Mk1".
Is the "C" an abbreviation for "Canada"?
I would realy appreciate educated answers. BTW, should I present the same problem on John Michael Littman's military .22 forum (didn't see, at first glance, much about Enfields).
 

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If it's any help, my No 7 has a five shot magazine inside the .303 one. I thought I had the Canadian version, but after a safari to the back ot the closet it turns out it is a No9mk1. But I did buy it from Canada!

Other then where they were made, there shouldn't be any difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you John.
Is the "C" for "Canada"? If so, we found another expert-error in the legal official list of free weapons in Belgium (this wouldn't surprise us of course!).
Will ask my question in the Littman's board too.
 

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Yes, the "C" is for Canada. In 1949 the Canucks started with this on the No. 4's they were cranking out. The 1944 and 1945 rifles did not have the "C", while the 1946 did.
The one difference there might be is that the British No 7 has bayonet lugs, while the CNo.7 does not.
The CNo. 7 was made in relativly large numbers, 20,000, each with a transit case. Many were crushed by the Candians, but they are not super rare, either.
There were three main receiver markings on the CNo. 7. It is a single loader, whilst the British No. 7 is magazine fed. There are some differences in the bolt.
The Brit rifle is sleeved, the CNo7 is new made. There is no functional difference between these rifles.
Hope this helps.
 

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The C No. 7 uses a standard No. 4 bolt with a modified bolt head. The British no. 7 uses a special bolt and bolt head and the barrel intrudes into the boltway by about 1/2 inch. The barrel on the Brit. No. 7 has a platform on the bottom half of the breach end which acts as a loading platform. The bolt head looks like only a half bolt head so it can fit over this platform.
The above mentioned parts are not interchangeable making the two rifles different.
 

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I'm going to side with Ansleyj on this one... The only similarities between the two are both being made on/modeled after a No.4. and they both shoot .22's. The magazines, the bolts, the bolt heads, the system of ejection, the barrels and the rear sights are completely different and in no way interchangeable ( Except for the rear sights ). The C No.7 is a single shot with a ramped follower platform and the British No.7 is a 5 shot repeater using a BSA Sportsman 5 magazine that has been modified to fit into a special platform riveted into a standard No4. magazine body. Clearly, two different rifles by design. It will be two weeks before I am home and able to take pictures of each to show you... maybe someone else would be able to provide some.
 

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They are both .22 trainers, therefore "no functional difference", or shouldn't be, in regards to the legal question on ownership he was referring to. Semantics, yes, but words still DO mean things. Yes, the rifles are different, in the bolts, as I referenced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
The two are best considered as separate distinct models; it is unfortunate that the same number got used for both.
I understand and agree after what I read and saw in the posts hereabove.
And now the one million Pound/Dollar question. Is there a way to know (references, books ...) how many were made of the two models: the "Long Branch C N°7 MK1" and the "BSA N°7 MK1" ???
I know the question seems odd but is important to us. Thank you for your commiseration!
 

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I understand and agree after what I read and saw in the posts hereabove.
And now the one million Pound/Dollar question. Is there a way to know (references, books ...) how many were made of the two models: the "Long Branch C N°7 MK1" and the "BSA N°7 MK1" ???
I know the question seems odd but is important to us. Thank you for your commiseration!
Slightly in excess of 20,000 for the Canadian No7.
2500 for the BSA No7 (special contract for the RAF)

Just to add -
No8 production was 17,000
No9 production was 3,000
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Alan De Enfield ... I'm in your debt !
I suppose you (and/or others) could back this up if necessary.
If a title, author and the ISBN ("International Serial Book Number", normaly found on the cover or copyright area) would be known to a member here ... this would be great.
Alan, I'll explain in a PM later on why this is important, not all battles can be won by "open field manoeuvers" in the war against anti firearms lobbies. Thank you again for your time, it is certainly as valuable as mine ... probably even more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This board, by taking care of my questions, has the privilege and honour to have waken up the (so called) "official political experts" in my country. They, once more, are somewhat shaken by the knowledge of others they often despise. There is more! I've been officialy asked if I would be interested to check all of the national Historical/Folkloristic/Decorative list of free weapons (i.e. no permit needed). It made me laugh out loud. I didn't answer yet, but if they insist the most interesting answer I could give would be: "Make your homework, that's what you are paid for ... I will do it for some 1,000 USD per hour!!!!".
"Revolution?" I love the idea! My thanks to everyone who didn't have a clue how some simple questions and answers could make a big difference for the shooters and collectors of a small kingdom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You will do a better job than they can, and you will be doing us all a service. Sometimes you have to donate of your time to the cause.
Yes and ... no! Don't get me wrong, I'll try to explain. I try to use my brain to help those that are 100% in favour of "normal" gun use, and think I can do a far better job by standing at the side line with my hammer behind my back. Look at it this way (I know it is a simplistic view), coaching a team is more effective when it can be done overlooking the herd as by standing in the midst of it. I noticed, dear Mk VII, that you live in the UK ... you know what happened there ... we try to fight this by any means and until now our strategy works. Knowledge (were ever it comes from) and what would be called in French "Le coup d'oeil du maître" (the surveying eye of the master) are serious weapons in the hands that try to controle what is happening to our hobby. Politicians know... BUT WILL NEVER ADMIT IT ... that an illegal weapon can be bought in half an hour ... a legal one takes time, control, medical examination, fees, membership in a club or shooting range etc. etc.
What happened in the UK and Australia was a lesson we followed with extreme attention. It ALWAYS begins with: "Why do you NEED a firearm?". I had a good idea then what happened in the UK ... an orchestration beyond the wildest imagination of somebody that stood with both feet on the ground. Politics are too often decided by shortsighted persons. In fact, we do not have to convince each other here and shouldn't waste our time in explaining that we think alike, the "enemy" is not in our ranks ... it's IMHO important that we deal with the "anti's"". Sorry to have been taken away a bit.
 
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