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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I ran across a german training rifle at a show this weekend which looked a lot like a DSM but upon looking closer it was a 4mm trainer rather than .22. The barrel was only about 12" long and there was a full length tube over it which looked like a normal barrel. I'll have some pics of markings and such tomorrow when I can download them from my camera. Just wondering if anyone had heard of such a thing and what the story is....????

I also picked up another ERMA .22 conversion for the 98K with the removeable floorplate and 5rd mag. Very nice piece dated 37 and in very good condition. This one doesn't have the ERMA/Erfurt emblem on the reciever top so its different than any others I've had.

Thanks for any info

Frank
 

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Buescher was a personal friend of Max Anschutz and a large gun dealer in Germany. This is his "private label" firearm. It was made by Anschutz for him with his crescent on the receiver. They are not all that common, and the .22 version is even rarer. Other than that, it is just like all the other variations of 4mms that Anschutz made. Made for indoor shooting, the 4mm round is quiet and has a maximum range of maybe 50 meters. I have one in my collection and sold the .22 version. A very nice, not commonly encountered piece.
 

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The 4 mm caliber is designed to be shot indoors, dont know nowadays, but before and during WWII many competitions were held with that caliber, I not only have a cuple of those rifles, in my case they belonged to the Kraft Dirch freude organisation , but also have one or two medals that were prizes of those competitions-Below pls find a pic of one of my KDF 4mm rifles, if I find the medals I'll post them-

 

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I've got a Gew. 98 that was converted to 4mm, as well as an Anschutz and a Simpson. Both of those are DSM-34 clones. I think that's all I have, but I may have others.

You can get ammunition, cleaning supplies and the proper targets from Neal Stepp in Ft. Worth. I think his store is International Shooters Supply. I've got some of his cards around here someplace.

If you want ammunition be sure and get Flobert-Randzünder cartridges (itty-bitty .22s) and not the M20 rounds, which are bell-shaped. Those fit the Lother Walther conversion units.

amafrank, if you know where I can find the floorplate and a magazine for an Erma unit, let me know. I have a bare conversion unit and I need the other pieces for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here are a couple pics of the gun. They didn't come out very well as my camera phone is hard to see. I did get a good shot of the crest on the receiver ring....Now I see that its a JG Anschutz crest.

I don't know where any parts for the .22 conversions are. I have one complete left in the wood box and the one that I just got in a funky Vz24 this weekend. It is in good shape with the floorplate and one mag but no extras. I pick them up when I see them and parts as well so I'll keep my eyes open.

I've collected the .22 conversions for years for lugers and mausers etc but the 4mm stuff has always been outside my view I guess. I really liked this little rifle and would love to buy it but I try not to get into stuff I don't know well unless its really cheap and this ones not that cheap....

Thanks guys
Frank
 

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If it's cheap you're looking for, 4mm ain't it! Loaded ammunition is usually over $20 per tin of 100 rounds, and the empty, primed cases aren't much cheaper. And then you have to buy the correct-sized balls to go with them. Still, it is a fascinating area of shooting to play around in.

The Anschutz that you bought is kinda the entry-level rifle in price. Up until a few years ago Anschutz still offered the modern version in their catalog - at a modern, Anschutz price. They may still offer the barreled action. But the Zimmerschutzen rifles that you see for auction on occasion (also spelled zimmerstutzen) are a lot more expensive, but they are more, um, sophisticated, shall we say? They use two-piece ammunition - a empty, primed case, and a round ball that is sized for the particular bore diameter of the rifle.

If you want more information, talk to Neal Stepp at 1-817-595-2090 in Fort Worth. Like I said in my earlier post, he can fix you up with everthing you need to shoot the rifles.

By the way, they are not silent, or even quiet, to shoot. That short barrel doesn't hold in much noise. They are also not a toy. That little 4.45mm ball can do some serious penetrating.

Well, probably more than you wanted to know, but there it is anyway. Take care.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I can use all the info I can get. I suppose I don't really know what "cheap " is in this area either. The rifle is tagged at $475 and I don't know if thats in the ballpark or not. I don't know how to tell the age of the rifle either. It appears to be similar to the prewar DSM's but I just don't know enough to say for sure. If I'd gotten better pics maybe it would have been easier to get help. I appreciate all the help and I'll try contacting Neal Stepp as well.
Thanks
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well I guess the price was right. A gent bought the gun at the national gun day show in louisville without an argument of the price. He told me it was definately pre-war and the stock was marked with the logo of the shop or distributor who sold it. The guy is a collector of these types and was quite happy to get it....I guess that saves me a little cash.
Thanks for all your help
Frank
 

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A very substantial thread, that may merit to be drawn to attention again. Special thanks for bmorrill for the added input. A few remarks of my own:

- The "Zimmerstutzen" event is still an official competition of the Deutscher Schützenbund, though it seems to be dying out... the guns are too expensive, there are hardly any young shooters, and less and less ranges for the quaint 15 metres distance. Our own club just closed its facility (used only once a year for the county championship) in order to better insulate the 10 metres airgun range.

- The secret is the correct lubrication of the round balls. Untreated factory ammunition won't bring you anywhere near the winners, that is the one thing which all - fiercely individualist - Zimmerstutzen shooters agree upon.

- Since Hirtenberger stopped its own production (it remains today a mere brandname of RUAG), only RUAG-RWS and S&B make 4mm rimfire ammunition. The Sellier & Bellot is not imported to Germany, but can be had upon special order via Frankonia (1000 round minimum).

- The older training rifle disciplines and target are nicely described somewhere on the web, where the contemporary manual was scanned in.

Carcano
 
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