[Theoxrojo]

It is my understanding the markings in the photo read left to right as Nagoya Arsenal, Kokubunji factory, first series, ???, 4.

What is that fourth marking please and what might be the date of manufacture? Thanks for any assistance.

 

[jangle]

That's the serial number of the pistol, #94. The date is stamped under these stamps, most likely 16.10 or 1941, October. Let's see a photo or two of the entire pistol please!

 

[arisakadogs]

Looks like the number 9 to me for S/N 94
The date of mfg will be under these markings on the frame. Add that number to 1925 and you'll have the year - the month is after the dot

 

[Theoxrojo]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies. I knew you guys were the ones to assist. For the life of me i could not make myself believe that "marking" was a 9. The date is 17.9 making it 1942 September production correct?

The pistol is not mine but it belongs to a fellow who received the pistol and a 1780s Wakizashi sword, both captured off of the Japanese hospital ship "Tachibana Maru".

I'm building a site to tell the story of these two relics (who initially possessed the two items, and how they came into this persons care) and it will be bundled with my TalkingRelics web site. I'll have plenty of photos and information to share when I'm done. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Edokko]

If it's a 17.9 then it should be a four digit number starting with 94. the third and fourth digit has been digitally erased from the photo.

 

[Theoxrojo]

Here is a photo showing all markings.

 

[Theoxrojo]

If it's a 17.9 then it should be a four digit number starting with 94. the third and fourth digit has been digitally erased from the photo.

A closer inspection of the larger photo does indeed looks like there has been some digital work done. Thanks, many thanks for the info.

 

[Othais]

Nagoya, Chuo Kogyo (Kijiro Nambu's factory), 2nd Series.
Sept, 1942 is correct.

http://candrsenal.com/pistol-nambu-type-14/

 

[Theoxrojo]

Thank you Othais for the correct series.

 

[03man]

Nagoya, Chuo Kogyo (Kijiro Nambu's factory), 2nd Series.
Sept, 1942 is correct.

http://candrsenal.com/pistol-nambu-type-14/

That is a first series mark, not second- second series is a box in a circle.

 

[Othais]

To my knowledge that's for Torrimatsu arsenal.

I've seen markings for Chuo Kogyo listed that have no prefix... so No Prefix, "ee" prefix.
I think Toriimatsu started with "ee" prefix to differentiate from Chigusa production. So "ee" prefix, then "ro" prefix.

 

[TGE]

03man has it right. This pistol is a Nagoya Nambu 1st series (Kokubunji factory) which followed after original Nagoya Nambu production reached #99999. The Nagoya arsenal, Toriimatsu factory, started production with 1st series #50000, and continued into the 2nd series after #99999 was reached..

- tge

 

[03man]

To my knowledge that's for Torrimatsu arsenal.

I've seen markings for Chuo Kogyo listed that have no prefix... so No Prefix, "ee" prefix.
I think Toriimatsu started with "ee" prefix to differentiate from Chigusa production. So "ee" prefix, then "ro" prefix.

The website you are looking at is in error.

 

[Othais]

All right, I need a fresh breakdown. Also someone let me know what book I should be referencing.

Isn't Kokubunji a factory belonging to Nambu Rifle? Which became Chuo Kogyo when it merged with some other businesses?
If so, my confusion would be why are there pistols marked with the stylized factory character without the serial prefix?

 

[type-14]

Your reference IMHO should be "Japanese Military Cartridge Handguns 1893-1945" by Harry Derby and James Brown. Not sure what your confusion is, no serial number prefix would be needed until the serial number range hit 99,999 and in the case of Kokubunji production never hit that 99,999 to make a second series.

 

[Othais]

My confusion is that serials without prefixes like this exist.

So, in my head there are three explanations and I just need someone to definitively say which one is true:
A: There were two series
B: They randomly started using a prefix in the first run (at what serial number?)
C: Two factories used the stylized "nam" for Nambu Rifle character. 南

 

[type-14]

A. If it helps you understand; Kokubunji had an original series as seen in the photo with the 12.10 date and then the 1st series. Serial numbers for the original series picked up from where Nagoya Chigusa factory left off in 7.11 date with serial #7824 being the last reported and picked up by Kokubunji in 8.12 date with #7835 being the first number reported to date. NO prefix used in the original series. This number system is the same as used for the rifles and other serialized items.
B. Nothing random about it, 1st series started in 16.10 with serial #1, however the lowest number reported to date is #19. Highest number of the original series reported to date is 16.10 #99941.
C. Kokubunji factory was it. Remember the full title is Nambu Rifle Mfg. Co./Chuo Kogyo Co., Ltd. Kokubunji Factory.

 

[nambu-shiki]

+1 on the Derby/Brown book. I updated my old "Imperial Hand Cannons of Japan" by Derby with his newest expanded edition. It will answer all your questions, complete with photo examples.

 

[Othais]

So the summary is there is a series before the "first series" is what I'm getting?

I am soooo no trolling or arguing. Just scratching my head.

Would it be better to call the non-prefixed Kokubunji pistols "continuation series?" By the way, I've seen Chigusa in some sources and Atsuta in others. Is Chigusa the company and Atsuta the district or what?

I'd really like a straightforward way to display this to help with anyone asking this question in the future. I really appreciate the help decoding these references guys.


edit: I have both books on my amazon list, along with about 2k of other titles. I just keep spending money on rifles though!

 

[TGE]

The serialization of pistols is similar to that for rifles. The Japanese standard was to add a Kana symbol before the serial number to indicate each 100,000 block of numbers. This kept the numbering to a maximum of 5 digits. So when there is no Kana character (non-Kana series), that is the first block (#1 through 99,999). Collectors refer to this as "no series" or "original series". The Kana series order "IROHA" comes from a Buddhist poem.

All Nagoya Nambu pistols were manufactured at the Kokubunji factory in Nambu's private company, Nambu Rifle Manufacturing Company. Below are the reported serial ranges. Remember that Nagoya arsenal, original series, Chigusa factory, ended production in 7,11 with serial number around 7824.

Nagoya Nambu, original series (no prefix), began in date 8.12 (serial # around 7830) through date 16.10 (serial # 99,999)
Nagoya Nambu, 1st series, date 16.10 (serial # 0) through date 19.8 (serial # around 20,300 when production ended)

Hope this helps.

- tge