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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've had a dot1943 since the mid '50's and am looking for any feedback as to its approximate current value. Not at all looking to sell or trade it … because of it's rough condition it's pretty much been relegated to 'wallhanger' duty.

Pros: complete original parts matching dot1943

Cons: No sling, no cleaning rod, no bayonet.
I remember how it looked when I was a little kid .. all of the metal (except for where any of the original oil remained) was completely covered with surface rust, and the stock had a faded, almost bleached appearance from being left in the damp.
The bore has a lot of rust damage .. the lands are still fairly strong, but both lands and grooves are pitted.
Likewise, most of the barreled action under the wood has considerable pitting damage.
Because of its overall condition, and to at least keep it from further deterioration, way back then my father did some basic restoration to the metal and stock .. wire brushed all of the metal surfaces to get the surface rust off, and I'm pretty sure he did some rebluing where necessary to slow further rusting .. and a very light sanding to get the roughness off of the stock surface, followed by a wood stain to get the color back into the wood and to protect it some. Because of the rust, he had to drill the holes in the recoil lug nut larger for stouter spanner wrench bits to break it loose.
The stock wood was already so weak that the recoil lug backed into the wood after the first few times we shot the gun.
The action is still solid enough to shoot in a decent replacement stock … although its windage is still perfectly centered @100yds, the grouping isn't very good due to the pitting throughout the bore and a bellied out spot somewhere around the rear of the front sight .. when you push a bore brush or a tight patch through the bore, you can feel it briefly loosen about an inch or so behind the muzzle, then tighten again before it goes out the muzzle.

Serial# is in the 4000's, with a lower case 'e' below it on the receiver and top of the bolt root. A lower case 'e' is also stamped behind the serial inside the handguard.
WaA63 on the receiver, barrel and bolt. WaA214 above the serial on the triggerguard .. WaA135 below the serial on the floorplate, on the rear tab of the stamped band spring, and upside down on the right side of the lower band. Simple eagle stamp on the left of the barrel .. on the barrel right is a small shield with 'dot' on top/number '11' below it (yes, '11', not '13')
The stock looks shiny in the pics because I wiped a few thin coats of Howard's Feed'n'Wax on it not long ago to keep it from getting too dry.

TIA for opinions ..
 

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I have had a lot of damaged, aged, rusty mausers, and generally I think your k98 would probably shoot better after more rounds or a minor polishing of the bore, I mean, I have seen some bores wiped out by simple moisture rust, and the exteriors are heavily pitted in kind. Probably your bore is "good" to good plus rated concerning how much lands are protruding above the grooves.

Then there is the other side of the coin, like if it was shot excessively with corrosive ammo decades ago and left with a completely fouled bore of corrosive powder residue, along with moisture, I could see where the bore could have pin point destruction where the exterior don't look like a dug relic as well.

Accuracy depends on a concentric muzzle as well, and the type of ammo being used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Then there is the other side of the coin, like if it was shot excessively with corrosive ammo decades ago and left with a completely fouled bore of corrosive powder residue, along with moisture, I could see where the bore could have pin point destruction where the exterior don't look like a dug relic as well.
lol, this description is the most likely scenario my dot came out of .. it's as cleaned up now as it will ever be, but it'll never be an accurate shooter, hence the permanent 'wallhanger' status I've assigned it to.
Here's the last target I shot with it some years ago in a replacement stock using WWII German, postwar Yugo, Portuguese, Romanian, Czech, etc ammo. 100yds .. lol, I'm not too careful when I aim .. just wanted to see what the old boy could still do .. I cleaned it thoroughly afterwards, and won't shoot the 'wallhanger' again.
 

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ReinhardH, I've got a shotgun that shoots a lot like that! Just kidding....;) Thanks for the pics!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
lol, the 'shotgun blast' appearance of that target brought to my mind the same analogy that day .. pretty much blasted 115 rounds through the thing in short order, approx 107 of which at least were on paper. The barrel was sending off so much heat that the sight picture had the wavy mirage look .. good thing it was a relatively cool day. I suppose I were more careful when taking aim, I could get the 'grouping' to tighten up a bit. This all has me so curious that I intend to take that gun to the range one more time with non-corrosive ammo to see if I can improve on that target. A few years ago I bought some of those Norwegian capture 'Mario'stocks, and found one that seems to fit the action perfectly. If I don't embarass myself again with the next target, I'll post it once it's done.

As to the variety of WaA's .. I never paid much attention to any of the ones on the gun until I saw the 'dot 1943' page in the 'Backbone' book, where Law mentions the possibility of the '214' and '135' WaA stamps being on these as well ... by 1943, the Brünn factory would have most likely been a 'German' arms factory ... here are pics of the '214' and '135' stamps I found on this rifle...
 

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I have seen worse rifles. I do not see an obvious reason to retire it. If it hits paper at 100 yds is is functional IMO. Shooting it that fast and then a good cleaning can help clean up the pitting. Wall hang it if you like but it is not a bad rifle and the pitting I see is not dangerous. Enjoy.
 

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All I can think of is that I have given pistols and rifles a thirty second recrown job and pulled in shots on otherwise new or never used barrels, which was confusing, the worste case was a helwan new in the box never used, still in the plastic wrap and oil from the 1980's, it wouldn't group shots even on a paper pie plate at 20 feet, so one day I gave a recrown job with a round headed screw, a hand drill, valve grinding compound on the otherwise sharp new looking muzzle and voila, shots were going into each other. I had a well worn counterbored ex czech mauser sniper that was sending shots I don't know where at 100 yards, I recounterbored maybe a 1/4 inch, deep recrowned the new muzzle surface, and brought the shots in to two and half inch spread at 100 yards with various surplus ammo.
Them muzzle crowns, they caused me many many years of grief and wasted rounds before I got wise. But of course, I have owned a number of shot out bores too, you can always tell by a hint of rifling, usually anything from an asian country like a pistol or an old mauser, a heavily worn and pitted yugo sks with thick fouling in the grooves that had likely been formerly converted to use ak47 mags then converted back to fixed mag so I sent it back due to keyholing shots up close even, but I will always wonder about that one since I hadn't worked out a method for recrowning and since discovered that fouling in grooves built up causes bullets to not engage rifling even worse and they come out flying everywhere.

I do believe in wallhanger guns though, I mean, not every guns needs shooting, its been a years long study of mine, I've sold off or traded off too many decent looking wallhangers that really made good display items.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I hear ya on the worn muzzle/crown issues in a lot of the old guns .. I've bought a few milsurp guns with the rifling rounded down to almost nothing at the crown, but barely 1/4" further in, there'd be real strong rifling throughout the otherwise almost like-new bores. I don't have the means to counterbore .. instead, bought some refacing & chamfer cutters w/pilots, hacksawed approx 3/16" off of the front of those particular barrels, refaced&reshaped the barrel ends, recrowned, and wound up with like-new crowns.

I've got no problem doing this kind of thing on mismatched old milsurps, but in the case of this particular dot, I'm leaving it unmessed with. My father did just barely enough minimal restoration to it many years ago to prevent further rust and stock damage, but other than that, I'm not messing with this gun, as it's probably the only real 'collector' K98k I have.
The YC replacement stock I put it in when I shot that first target wasn't a perfect fit to the action .. that stock isn't warped to the left or right, but its recoil crossbolt is already a bit set back into the wood, which made for a tiny gap between it and the action that ideally should rest directly against it. I did no shimming to correct it.
One of the Norway K98 stocks I bought seems to be a perfect fit to the dot barreled action, so that's what I'll use the next time at the range. Curious to see if it makes a difference.

Bore fouling definitely isn't an issue in this gun .. got it sqeaky clean with Butch's Bore Shine, followed by TetraGun Copper Solvent, which made the pitting and scarring more clearly visible .. I think even that damage isn't so bad given the still fairly strong lands, but the bellied out spot at the front sight base is probably the issue most affecting any potential accuracy of the thing.
My father mentioned that during his initial armorer's training on the base after five months basic training, guns would be brought to them by the target range instructors, with descriptions of each respective gun's 'symptoms' causing the wider than normal grouping .. they had the machines to straighten barrels, but the ones with the bellied out spots behind the muzzle had damage that was most often credited to drops of water from rain, or maybe dirt in the front end of the bore .. apparently they didn't do any counterboring in the base workshop because rifles with that kind of damage were packed up and shipped out to some other location. Unfortunately, where they were shipped to he never knew, nor lol cared..

Other than one more range visit in the good stock, I'm leaving this gun unmessed with. This time around I'll be shooting the boxer primed Hirtenberger ammo, probably only one box of 20 instead of another 115 lol .. the newer Hirtenberger shoots a lot like the WWII German milsurp lot P635 from J&G years ago, and pretty sure I've read somewhere since that the P635 lot was made back then at the Hirtenberger factory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Finally today I got to the range to get a current target for the 1943dot to update the previous target posted above from 8+ years ago. This one isn't exactly stellar by marksman standards, but I'm completely content with the results.

The recoil crossbolt in the original stock loosened years ago, so for today's target I put the action into a nearly perfect-fitting good-condition Norway capture WaA37 stock I'd bought as a backup, and shot only the '80's Hirtenberger boxer-primed ammo.
First few rounds wound up way off to the left, after which all of the subsequent rounds landed closer to the centerline of the target .. I'm guessing it must have been the action 'settling into' the 'new' stock during the first several rounds...

The top grouping around the 'Score Keeper' print was from aiming 6 o'clock under the black where the top star is, then when I moved the point of aim to the red circled bottom star for the rest of the shots after the gun warmed up, 15 outta less than the last 20 rounds grouped in that clump in the red circle just over the black. The few wild shots low and to the right were mostly due to my impatience while aiming.
That the group landed slightly to the left of center on the target isn't a surprise because where the original front sight is still staked to the base is very slightly to right of center ... pretty amazing that a gun in such rough condition would still have near-perfect windage with front and rear sights centered :)

For me, getting a 2 ½" - 3" grouping @100yds from one of these old Mausers is a VERY good day at the range, not to mention via THIS old rifle … given the condition of this bore, the results (at least to me) were a real nice surprise .. no doubt using a properly fitting stock helped a lot. This 1943dot is now officially retired :)
 

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