[sdh600]

Just bought this a month ago. Very nice rifle. I was wondering if anyone knew the history on these. This one is marked 1948 on the receiver. Unfortunatly someone drilled an extra hole in the front receiver ring. Were these complete guns that were imported by Firearms Int., or were they barreled actions that were imported and then stocked by FI. This one has a three diget serial number so I assume it is an early one. Any info would be great.
Thanks
Steve

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

just a guess:

.... it looks to have re cut checkering "real fresh" looking not in line with age?
....pad added?

....excellent guns.... Belgium action / barrel..

... then wooded FI.... i don't know were they got their stocks?

....a forgotten hidden treasure....prices don't reflect the quality!

i have been looking at one in a mannlicher FI...but with FN on receiver ring.... he was asking $350
i told him i'd give him $335.... had the money and should have bought it...

well i have many guns....and just couldn't talk to him he was a little rude and was in a hurry to leave...
his friend got involved in the deal and was trying to trade him another gun and sale it to me?
too strange....i got the cold shoulder?

 

[sdh600]

The checkering could have been recut, but I don't think so. It has enough small dings in it that match the rest of the dings in the finish that I don't think it was recut. The gun was said to have had less than a box of shells through it and the metal shows that. The bolt face is pristine and there was not a trace of brass on the rails or feed ramp. I think it was just a cabinet queen. Probably had the pad added somewhere along the way, but not sure on that as I have never seen one like this before.

Thanks
steve

 

[iskra]

An Unusual Rifle

Congratulations sdh600,
Your rifle is unusual. In many decades of collecting, I have seen only one other such rifle bearing the FI (NOT to be confused with "FN") receiver ring logo and it is now in my collection. Despite some research of postwar FN sporting rifles, I have never encountered any information concerning these FI logo marked actions or of FN actions with the "Firearms International..." markings on the left receiver sidewall. Such markings seem almost heresy within FN nomenclature orthodoxy. To all this extent, our rifles are conundrums! My XL data for my rifle sadly fails to account for year of manufacture marking (or absence thereof), an oversight related to my hurried spreadsheet preparation between overseas assignments. My rifle serial number is 29xx. I believe that the serial numbers of our rifles were in a range unique to their particular series. Certainly your rifle SN tends to support the belief that it is not in the general FN series. I have an early FN postwar production sporting rifle in the 3xx serial range. It is quite typical of the early FN postwar sporting iteration, bearing most of the military FN action attributes. Our FI rifles possess the later FN commercial rifle attributes (such as the solid left receiver sidewall) which are found beginning in latter 1947. That our rifles departed Belgium at least as a barreled action (yet more probably as complete rifles) is evident by the Belgian proof markings.
I like the stock on your rifle. It is considerably less 'clunky' than the execution of mine. However, I seriously doubt that yours was an FN product. The forearm style and length as well a the radius of the pistol grip are unlike any FN product that I have ever encountered. Mine is more similar to some of the early FN attempts at executing the Monte Carlo stock design and comparably similar to an FN rifle product of 1951 among my rifles. Yet it really is not possible to say absolutely that our stocks were not aftermarket products joined to barreled actions stateside.
As you may know Firearms International of Washington DC/Alexandria Va, was perhaps the foremost importer/distributor of foreign military and sporting rifles for several decades. In 1948, FN actions receiver rings were routinely marked with the ”FN” logo. It is my theory that our rifles were originally produced without any receiver ring markings (as was done for their products destined for Husqvarna in Sweden) and subsequently marked, perhaps by acid etching, with the FI nomenclature. In execution, it contrasts rather remarkably with the delicately formed FN logo of the era.
I believe that the most likely source for any further research is perhaps in era periodicl advertising in surviving gun journals. I have previously used such source to augment my own knowledge base.
A couple of photos of my rifle in 270 Winchester are below.
Again congratulations on an unusual rifle. Thank you for the post and your good photos. Perhaps other members can contribute some further knowledge.
And so...
My take.

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

FN marked is the one i'm after by FI....but the guy has been elusive at the last two shows....
i agree mostly with your research ....but i thought the barrel should have proofs?
what do you think ISKRA?

 

[sdh600]

Iskra, thanks for the great info. I am curious if the butt plate on your rifle has a FI logo on it?
Here are a few more pic of mine.
Thanks again.
Steve

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

did HERTERS have those style grip caps?....i have on in the basement some where? i'll have to check

 

[iskra]

Interesting!

Sdh600, thank you for sharing the additional interesting photos! Your pistol grip cap shown is also unlike any that I have seen on FN produced stocks. (DK: it would be interesting if you do have a similar cap related to a Herter's firm product!) Yet still more for the reasons which I originally stated, I believe that your quite nice stock is not an FN product. Otherwise, your rifle appears entirely correct given the unusual nomenclature. It is also more typical FN in the bright work of the bolt assembly than mine. My FI rifle bolt parts are blued although the rifle in all respects appears un-refinished. Possibly the later series-production suggested by the serial number of mine (compared to your early number) may reflect an FI bluing design change, perhaps to further differentiate it from its ‘pure FN’ brethren.
In answer to your question, my FI rifle does not have the typical “FN” logo butt plate. I would have considered such an indicator of an aftermarket stock but for extrinsic information. I had earlier acquired a ‘normal’ FN rifle with the same style stock and butt plate as the FI model. This FN came to me ostensibly in the same configuration (excepting the Lyman 48 receiver sight) as when purchased new through an American military gun club in Germans by a serving officer. IF correct, it would seem that the stock is more likely an FN product. Yet I remain uncomfortable with this conclusion based on what seems rather crude styling atypical of FN sporting mausers. (Absent the referenced hearsay, I would suspect that the FI rifles were imported as barreled nations, being stocked and marketed by FI stateside.)
For general information, the referenced FN marked rifle of comparison to my FI is in 257 Roberts chambering, shows a 1951 production date and is in the 11xxx serial range. (This serial coincides with mainstream FN production date correlation of the period.)

Below, three left photos photos reflecting additional views of my FI rifle and three photos for comparison of the referenced FN marked counterpart.

In conclusion, I apologise to readers here who may find all of this simply trivia and no more than ‘angels on the pin head’, but for me it is satisfying to view a similar specimen and to compare/contrast what I consider a quite unusual FN product shrouded in a bit of mystery.
My take