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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Before my son was born, I used to race bicyles...you know, road-racing. One of my fellow teammates was prior army and a Vietnam vet. I worked with his wife and it wasn't until she brought a cigar box full of ribbons and medals to work to have made into a shadow box, did I realize that he was a vet.
One day, I decided to ask him about his time in. He told me he was in the infantry at first, but after 3 months in Vietnam, he figured out that they did not know what they were doing and they were going to get him killed. He wanted out of that outfit and asked for a transfer. They told him the only way out was to get wounded, killed or go Special Forces. He decided to go for Special Forces.
He went back to the states and became a Ranger. He went back to Vietnam as a Ranger and finished his tour. He told me about a couple things. He was wounded twice. Second time was his ticket home. He told me of some pretty hair-raising experiences that he and his buddies endured.
Well, today I was surfing the net and decided to Google his name. Bam... There he was. He was with I Co. (Rangers) 75th Infantry, Ist ID. And it gets better... He's mentioned (a few times) in a book titled, "Phantom Warriors: Book 2 More Extraordinary True Combat Stories from LRRPS, LRPS and Rangers in Vietnam" It's avaiable from Amazon Books.
I am SOOOO getting this book! He told me these things back in the early 90's. The book was published in 2001. I can't wait to read it. He's always been one of my heros, now I get to read about it.
 

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Before my son was born, I used to race bicyles...you know, road-racing. One of my fellow teammates was prior army and a Vietnam vet. I worked with his wife and it wasn't until she brought a cigar box full of ribbons and medals to work to have made into a shadow box, did I realize that he was a vet.
One day, I decided to ask him about his time in. He told me he was in the infantry at first, but after 3 months in Vietnam, he figured out that they did not know what they were doing and they were going to get him killed. He wanted out of that outfit and asked for a transfer. They told him the only way out was to get wounded, killed or go Special Forces. He decided to go for Special Forces.
He went back to the states and became a Ranger. He went back to Vietnam as a Ranger and finished his tour. He told me about a couple things. He was wounded twice. Second time was his ticket home. He told me of some pretty hair-raising experiences that he and his buddies endured.
Well, today I was surfing the net and decided to Google his name. Bam... There he was. He was with I Co. (Rangers) 75th Infantry, Ist ID. And it gets better... He's mentioned (a few times) in a book titled, "Phantom Warriors: Book 2 More Extraordinary True Combat Stories from LRRPS, LRPS and Rangers in Vietnam" It's avaiable from Amazon Books.
I am SOOOO getting this book! He told me these things back in the early 90's. The book was published in 2001. I can't wait to read it. He's always been one of my heros, now I get to read about it.


Very nice! You just never know who you are talking to, do you? :cheers:
 

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Just to clear some facts up here. Special Forces in Viet Nam and the Infantry division Ranger companies are not the same thing. THey had different missions . SF was under 5th SF Group

Very fine your friend went to Ranger School and went back for a second tour in I Company, 75 Inf (Ranger). God bless him for putting it on the line and going the extra mile in his professionalism.

Now it is a fact that Ranger companies & LURP units sent men to be trained by the MAC V Recondo School which was run by 5th SF Group. Graduates returned to their Ranger companies or LURP units of the Infantry Divisions or Corps Areas.
 

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Sspecial Forces are guys who wear Green Berets. Period.

The term has been watered down and bastardized to include just about everyone.

In the 80s,SOCOM was born-Special Operations Command-which pretty much is an umbrella for all them.
5th Group was just the group responsible for VN at the time. There were TDYs from the 1st Group and even the 7th.
There are several groups, each which has a basic mission for a specific part of the world.

SF still means just Green Berets, but the SF Association is using the term Green Berets now as a reminder.
Shame, but that's life.
SF is a long hard school not everyone can get into or pass. Life in group is just as demanding-no room for foot dragging or incompetance.
Us guys who endured it are touchy about it. We used to say a Green Beret is a hat and you cannot be a hat.

There is a need for some unconventional units to work together, especially some ground and air assets.
Desert One made that painfully clear.
 

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Mike

I purposely omitted mentioning 1st Group and 7th Group tdy teams, as well as the projects in order to simply my answer.

End State: The posters buddy is a Ranger. Not Special Forces.

Further: You qualify and graduate from SF Course and you get a SF MOS (military occupational speciality) and that is your career track. You serve in SF units.

You graduate from Ranger School and you get a skill identifier as Ranger qualified. You may or may not serve in a Ranger unit.

Many of us in SF wear the SF Tab and Ranger Tab on our left shoulder. We serve in SF units but have had Ranger training.

Closing: 503MP's friend served in a Ranger unit in Viet Nam War. Great credentials for a warrior.
 

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Dunno about now, but when i was wearing a green suit (NOT a Green Beret), SF went to airborne and Ranger school, and had to survive both, before they could even apply of Special Forces training. All the SF guys i ran into back in the day had Ranger tabs and airborne tabs (and jump wings) as well as the funny hats. Including the guys in 10th Group down at Bad Toelz, some of whom did things involving violations of international boundaries. Very clandestine violations. I wish i had never been privy to those reports as that significantly restricted travel while i was in Germany.
 

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Clyde is right on. Know a Special Forces Major. He went to Airborne and Air Assault Schools while in Army ROTC. As a shavetail he went to Ranger School and after graduation was posted to a light infantry division as an infantry platoon leader. Three years later after making Captain he attended Special Forces School for two years, including six months of foreign language training. He was one of 17 to complete the Special Forces Qualification Course of the 132 who started. He was then assigned to the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] BN 10[SUP]th[/SUP] Group. In the Infantry his MOS was 11A and he wore his Ranger TAB over his Division patch. Since he was not in a Ranger regiment, he was not a Ranger, but was Ranger qualified. He wore the crossed rifles of the Infantry on his lapels. In Special Forces his MOS changed to 18A and he wore his Airborne and Ranger Tabs over his SF Patch and the crossed arrows of Special Forces on his lapels.

He then transferred to the Army Foreign Area Officer Program and his MOS changed to 48J (Africa, South of the Sahara). He still wears the SF crossed arrows and his “funny hat” because it, like his Airborne and Air Assault badges and Bronze Star were earned awards.
When the Army went to universal berets for all, it cheapened the symbolism of the beret for Airborne, Ranger, and Special Forces.
 

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Lovesz: sorta right there, depending on time period.

Officer retains his MOS till he completes SF Qualification Course, where his MOS changes
to 18A. He could have been any MOS prior to this (Infantry, artillery, signal etc) but once
he graduates the Q course, he is SF branch and wears crossed arrows, wears the SF Tab and a Green Beret.

If anyone in the Army is a Ranger School graduate with Tab , that soldier / officer wears Ranger Tab for life over his left shoulder. Thus, you will find SF troops who also have a Ranger Tab.

THe SF Tab and Ranger Tab are permanent awards. Graduation from Q Course changes your MOS to SF and that is your career track in the Army. Graduation from Ranger School w/ tab only gives you a Ranger skill identifier and is not a career track in the Army. If you want to be in a Ranger Battalion, you volunteer and go through their assessment phase (even if you are Ranger Tab wearer).

I earned & wore SF and Ranger Tabs and I ran the SF Qualification course (Q Course), this is not theory being written here.
 

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When I went in, 1966, there were a lot of "Original Manifest" or guys who were in the 1st formation serving.

A bunch of them were Eastern Europeans recruited under the Lodge act.
There were Hungarian Freedom fighters and other former Guerillas, and a bunch of Axis guys.
A Msg on my 1st team in VN had been a flak gunner in the Luftwaffe.
Lots of the other old timers were Korea vets, mostly Rakkasans. Real professionals.
You've probably read about Larry Thorne a Finn, who had been commissioned in the Waffen SS in order to fight Commies.
He died in VN.
I was in the early bunch of "SF Babies." They decided to expand SF and began recruiting youngsters out of jump school and AIT.
We were recieved with a lot of skepticism by the old guard, but a lot of us did pretty well in spite of ourselves.
A number of my generation earned the MOH and others ran hard with the teams crossing the border. I was fortunate to spend 16 months on an A Team in a border camp. Great times for a farm kid-a lot of sadness, as well.

I did time in the 6th before VN, but not long enough to get any of the real sophisticated schools.

I did 4 years and that was enough-I got offered Ranger school on the way out the door of 7th group, but I was done.
For those who stick with it, training continues forever along with some pretty nifty schooling.

In VN, they reactivated the old Ranger unit concept-hard hitting well trained groups of guys.
They used to say Rangers job was to break things and kill people.
Most were not "Ranger Qualified," not having the yellow tab.
This created the great "Who is a Ranger?" debacle that rages yet today.

At times I regret leaving the service, but I am a bit to independent for that life.
I go to the c onvention and 5th grp reunions sometimes.
The youngsters of today are awsome to behold-tough,smart, and with space age equipment.
I enlisted to beat the draft as did many of my age, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, I've read them both. All, I can say is wow! My buddy, Robbie has mentioned that he wants to talk to me about them. I plan to meet with him at some point to sit down and discuss his experiences. Mike
 
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