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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I thought I would try to post a few pictures of my Husqvarna 640 with the early FN commercial action (1948). It came apart after I glass bedded it and I made a quick trip to the range and shot one group with it with the only handloads I had. The 8 mm is in the foreground; the rifle behind is a 9x57 that also came from Sweden and which was almost new, though made in 1931. Anyone really know why the 9.3x57 became so popular in Sweden instead of the 9x57??? The group in the white was 50 yards open sights and good for my eyes these days. The group in the black was a clip from my Walther PP AFTER I had snuck up on the target quite a bit. The rifle was a $250. one from Simpson's. The 640 stock was cracked behind the tang and behind the recoil lug and had a piece of metal installed behind the lug. The 9x57 stock suprised me because it is American black walnut.:)
 

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I also have a similar 8mm, but mine has no sidemount. Your inletting is better than mine . There is enough room in my inletting for a young family to live. It's visually disturbing to look across my barrel - I sometimes feel like I'm gonna fall in. I do like those barrel-mounted swivels.
 

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Interesting that the commercial version has the stripper guide and the thumb cutout. My Zastava does not have those features, nor does it have the shroud safety.

9.3x57 is probably popular because of bullet availability. I am unaware of any decent 9mm (0.356 inch) bullets for rifles. Of course, this is entirely a guess.

I am an aficionado or the 9.3x62, which is uncommon in North America, but very common in sub-Sahara Africa. It is an excellent medium range cartridge for the larger antelopes and dangerous game such as bear, jaguar, and leopard. A 286 grain Hornady SP over 57 grains of Reloder 15 gives me a very accurate round with lots of knock down power.
 

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I the rifle behind is a 9x57 that also came from Sweden and which was almost new, though made in 1931. Anyone really know why the 9.3x57 became so popular in Sweden instead of the 9x57??? .:)
good question because the 9x57 Mauser also around in sweden is more or less in the same league as the 9,3x57. you may think that the 18,5 gramm bullet for the 9,3 was much better on mouse than the common 16 gramm bullet in the 9x57 but before WW 2 there was also a 9x57 with a 18 gramm bullet easy available. handloading wasn't a point before WW 2.
it's my understanding that there are no swedish sporter made before 1927 in 9,3x57. is this right???
I have found the 9,3x57 in two german catalogues from 1926/27, no rifle's for this cartridge there. when was the first rifle made in 9,3x57??
husqvarna picked this up and thats how it goes
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
FN actions and why the 9.3?

I have Husqvarna rifles with three versions of the FN large ring action- the military style action in a 146 in 9.3x57; the intermediate type in this 8x57 (no thumb cut, non-functional clip loading guides, full C internal collar, military style locking screws on trigger guard and scope friendly bolt) and the late style on a .30/06 with no clip guides or hump, H internal collar and no locking screws on trigger guard. It was the last version that Zastava took over manufactoring after FN quit. As feuerwerker points out, there was a heavy bullet load in the 9x57 and it had a long history by the 1920's- going back to civilian versions of the 1888 Commision action. It was popular enough to be offered in several American sporting rifles in the 1930's so the popularity of the 9.3x57 in Sweden, instead of 9x57, has always been a puzzel to me. Certainly, I would rather shoot a 9.3x57 or 9x57 in a Swedish 96 type action than in the 1888 system (and I have both 9.3x57 and 9.3x62 rifles on 96 actions). The 9.3x62 is something else and it's African reputaion made it a success- but why 9.3x57??
 

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lc;

a great question.....

One I've asked a thousand times everywhere but never received an answer.

SOMEBODY knows...or knew...but I think the answer has burned off in the morning mist of antiquity.

So my own guess is as valid as anybody's??? :)

I suspect that the caliber was settled on merely in the flurry of the day, a decision made like that of them that decided to chamber the 6.5 Remington Magnum, or the .270, or the .358 Win. To sell guns, for an esoteric reason which may seem immaterial today.

But like you I'd like the details..............

Nice shooting by the way, and the 146 rifles are good ones.

Thanks for posting.

That 8x57 will be a good backup to your 9.3x57 for the elk you shoot, and will extend the range a bit when the elk are gone and the wolves are hauling for the far side of the clearcut... :(
 

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this is becoming interesting, there was no swedish rifle made in 9,3x57 before 1927 but norma say on the website that the cartridge may start around 1900 "Interestingly, no one seems to be able to determine exactly when or by whom the 9.3x57 chambering was designed but it dates back to around 1900. This is nothing more or less than the 8x57J with the neck opened up to accept the then widely popular 0.366-inch bullets. Since it differs only by 0.008-inch in bullet diameter, this chambering is obviously similar in performance potential and range of applications to the 9x57 Mauser (which uses 0.358-inch bullets). Performance and design are also similar to the 9.5x57 Mannlicher, which has a differently shaped case. It is far more powerful than the rimmed cylindrical 9.3x57R. Several similar chamberings were common at the turn of the last century. Of these, only the 9.3x57 survives in common use. This chambering is still used all over Scandinavia for hunting driven moose and lesser species. The most common gun chambered for this round is the Husqvarna bolt action. This chambering has been nicknamed "The Potato Thrower" due to the fact that it launches a heavy bullet at moderate velocity and, therefore, produces a rainbow-like trajectory. With such popularity and such a good track record on game at typical driven ranges, it is likely to be with us for a good many years, despite the fact that no mainstream manufacturer now chambers it. Since no pressure standard exists for this number, we chose to use a relatively conservative 43,500-psi (3000 Bars) maximum pressure for loads presented
here."


the oldest catalogue I have with this round is a 1926/27 Steigleder Berlin/ Suhl. no rifle is advertise there but also a mysterious 9,3x57R that probable did not find enough interest .


its there with 18,5 gramm bullet and 600 m/sec muzzle velocity together with 9x57 with 18,2 gramm bullet and also 600 m/sec.
not to much difference at all!
also some other long forgetten cartridges like 9x63, 9,3x63, 10,75x57, 10,75x63.
 

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I never found the 9,3x57 in a RWS or DWM catalogue but it did not mean it wasn't there all the time:


RWS load made in 1944(!) with steel case

we see a lot of german sporting rifles coming from sweden today in 9x57, 10,75x57, 10,75x68 and also 9,3x57.
my theory of the day: the 9,3x57 was a german development and only make the career in sweden. some german M 98 sporting rifle's where send to sweden around 1926 and Husqvarna picked it up.
dont compare it with the 9,3x62 from today's possibility's. the long x62 was a true africa cartridge in this days and not realy popular maybe something like the 9,3x64 is now.
 

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OK, a refined guess...

The 9.3x57 was ORIGINALLY whumped up in Germany at the same time as all the many other calibers based on the 57mm case. 5, 6, 6.5, 7, 8, 9 and 10,75mm's all.

But it like others sat around without a rifle for some time.

By the 20's we had the development of bolt action commercial rifles being contemplated in Sweden AND of course there existed the 9,3x62 since 1905...

EXCEPT...

...the action to be used was indeed the 94/96 Swede and it, we are all reminded, is a bit shorter than the 98 and thus will not hande all factory 9,3x62 cartridges. A development of the "Spanish" Mauser, it was designed for cartridges in the 55-57mm length range.

So, seeking for logic and not just esoteric marketing hype, this hypothesis seems to make good sense.

Now, all of you know that later the 96 actions were used for the 9,3x62 cartridge, but really, this WAS a blatant attempt to make-do and in light of the fact that not all standard factory rounds will function properly, a somewhat lame attempt, really. Of course by that time the 9,3x62 was a very popular round {ie, as far as mediums go}.

Putting it another way, if in 1925-26 a team were assembled to make a good elg rifle out of the 96 action, and all available cartridges were to be options, which one would the team select?

I submit that 9,3x57 would have made a good choice in spite of the fact that it is neither 9x57 nor 9,3x62.

Now all you HVA kooks { :) } get out there and find out if the 96 action was ever, even in research and development, ever, chambered by the factory, even as a prototype, in 9x57.

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
"Let's try the middle one"??

Since Husqvarna had made single shots in 9, 9.3 and 9.5 calibers, maybe one of their engineers just picked the middle size for the Model 46 effort?? Speed et al list factory rifleing specification tables from the Mauser plant dated 1926 that include 9x57 and 9.3x62 but not 9.3x57. A number of the cartridges in the tables are listed as Model 88 rounds including the 9x57. It would be interesting to see what the earliest dated cartridge box for 9.3x57 is in anyone's collection, or earliest catalog mention.

With all the pine bark beetle kill in the Colorado and Wyoming Rockies, elk numbers are expected toboom in response to more understory growth. A pair of wolves showed up in Albany County last year and killed a couple of steers- the government killed one and the other disappeared. So it looks like 9.3's will be useful here for a while. Moose and elk numbers in northern Wyoming have really been impacted by wolves.
 

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The 9.3 caliber seems to have some origins in the many British 360s... while the 9mm is definitely a "continental" thing.
There are also obscures cartridges in very local places such as the 9.3X53 and the 9.3X72R...
The German origin of the 9.3X57 would have been clear and true if there was any evidence that they ever used it, or made any sporting rifles for it (they did, but much later), but the use of a 9.3caliber bullet is likely a "copy" of the British .360 caliber wich was already used in HVA Express and drilling rifles in late 1800 early 1900. Then, the availlability and most likely the "new" (with the 1905 "upgrade") reputation of the 8X57JS may have play a big role for the 9.3X57 introduction as a sporting catridge, altough, curiously, neither the 9.3X57 nor the 9X57 did profit of the higher pressures of the then new 8X57JS.

Below; 93.X53 Swiss Gvt Arsenal, Altdorf, 9.3X57 Norma, 9.3X57 Svenska Metallverken, 9.3X62 Pvazske Strojarne and 9.3X72R (N) Swiss Gvt Arsenal, Altdorf.
 

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the british origin of the german 9,3 is very old, it was the 360BPE 2 1/4" that comes to germany before 1880 and very early it was lengthen from 9,3x57R 360 to the more common 9,3x72R. notice that the bullet diameter for this rounds in germany is .364 all other cartridges have the .366 diameter.
it is sometimes say that the 9,3x74R had the 400/360 NE as the model before but I never see a german made rifle for the british cartridge.
when the 9,3x57 start as a swedish semi wildcat why wasn't it made from the native 6,5x55? like the 8x54. Ok, I have the steigleder catalogue that shows the 9,3x57 in 1926! first swedish rifle was sold in 1927. who beats me with a dokument that show an earlier date?
I have allway's thought that the 9,3x57 was develop in Sweden before WW 1 but hold it into the light now its not true.
you cant compare the role of the 9,3x62 today when its everybody darling with the year 1927. it was than just another cartridge.

for other 9,3 mm cartridges see my post on nitroexpress http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=150441&an=0&page=0#Post150441
 

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Husqvarna chambered the model 33 rolling block rifle and the model 17 SxS hammer gun for the 9.3x57 R 360 (as Baribal noted above). I did not know that the bore of the 9.3x57 R 360 is slightly smaller than the other 9.3 cartridges. In the book "Husqvarna Kulvapen 1870 to 1970" they call this cartridge the 9.15 x57 R 360. In the cartridge reference books I have, everyone seems to call it the 9.3x57 R 360.

Since Husqvarna was already making barrels in this caliber and had the tooling, it would make sense to use this caliber in a modern cartridge that would fit well in the standard '94 action to build a modern hunting rifle in the 1920's. The 9.3x57 fills that role very well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Maybe a stepchild of the 9.3x74R ?

The skydevaaben website lists 9x47R and 9.5x47R as being contempory offerings with the 9.3x57R/.360 in rolling block single shots up to 1912 so the tooling should have been equally available for all three bore sizes. However, the site says the hammerless double rifle was made in 9.3x74R from 1917 on, so maybe this was the inspiration and the logical choice in 1927?
 

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dont forget that you have in fact 3 or 4 different cartridges under the term 9,3x57R 360
1. 360 BPE 2 1/4 coiled case
this have the same dimension's like
2. 9,3x57R 360 drawn brass case, continental made

the other two dont fit in chambers for No. 2
3. 360 BPE 2 1/4 drawn brass case
4. 360 NE 2 1/4

the 9,3x57R 360 was available in 1927 as blackpowder+leadbullet load and as Nitro for black load with jacketed bullet. barrels vary from .360 to .375 diameter in old rifle's and it seems that anyone before WW 1 take the barrel he had just now on the working bench laying around. but it was a express barrel for shooting also blackpowder cartridges.
the 9x47r and 9,5x47r are german blackpowder target cartridges. old RWS and DWM catalogue have them in any diameter from 7mm to 13mm, over 100 different case's. tool's for barrel making wasn't the problem than.
 
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