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Discussion Starter #1
Hello to everyone!

Hope everything is going well. Here, raining again! Had some free time and decided to take some pictures of one of my rifles and share them with you.

The rifle is a 1939/51 MO marked. A few years ago, I was able to locate the correct scope for this particular rifle. The scope is also a 1939, MO-51. The base, mount and bolt are original, only the screws are reproductions. Very happy that I was able to restore this rifle.

My free time is very limited, I don't visit the site as much as I would like. I have not been able to use this rifle, I believe the last firearms I took shooting, were my M1 Carbines.

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I don't get the MO 51 for the scope....or the barrel...I've never seen a slash like that. The Mosin is a refurb indicating it was 'de snippered' and refurbed in '51....I have a similar Tula MO refurb with a /49 indicating its refurb date. PEM's were not refurbed for issue to my knowledge as the PU was the official system at that time.
The star stamp is also wrong with the lop sided portion.... there is a company that sells a small star like that that is out of shape...like a shooting star but about the correct size.
The bits look correct but no Tula from a refurb was retained as a PEM....someone did a bit of fakery in my opinion but I am not the final word in the field so we'll see what others say.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you Shoots high!

Reiver1, yes I hope Ratnik, Molosky and other members give us a little more information. I have actually seen other scopes with the MO-51, can't remember if one was a PE or also a PEM. I know for a fact, that Molosky had one many years ago.

I can't remember if I purchased this particular scope in one of my trips to Moscow or if I asked a friend or a wife's relative to purchase it for me.

The base/mount came from Russia years ago, but it is true, nowadays everything can be faked. Some of my base/mounts were dug up in the Karelia area.
 

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Here is a pic of my MO /49 Tula.....the stampings are uniform and all the same 'bluing' shade....
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Discussion Starter #6
Nice rifle Reiver1!

I am still missing, have been looking for the years of 1933 ex-PE and 1942 ex-PEM Tula. Need these two years to complete my set of ex-PE and ex-PEM. One day.......
 

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Nice rifle Reiver1!

I am still missing, have been looking for the years of 1933 ex-PE and 1942 ex-PEM Tula. Need these two years to complete my set of ex-PE and ex-PEM. One day.......
Thanks...yours too. I have a nice PE...but only 3 snipers, one of each..PE/PEM/PU and that's it....it sounds like you have one in each year.
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Yes, very nice PE rifle! Original late 1935 or 1936 PE scope, does not have the brass color, like earlier PE scopes, or maybe painted over the brass? And original mount. Can't tell about the base.

For PEM mounts, this post has a lot of information, some pictures show the tiny inspections marks. My records indicate that this mount, the one on this rifle, came from Novosibirsk, Russia.


I am sure this rifle, 1939/51 MO, did not happen to have a 1939 MO-51 scope, I just was fortunate to find the scope and later the rifle, wanted to get them together.

I had this particular rifle restored using a Dmitry base, then removed the Dmitry base and installed the original base, that way, I did not have the base drilled to remove the pins, fit perfectly.

Yes, right now, have the 1932, 1934, 1935 (3), 1936 (round, hex), 1937, 1938 (3), 1939 (3), 1940, 1942 Izhevsk. Still need to have some restored. I have no plans to restore the 1932 ex-PE, debating about restoring the 1934, I have the original screws, base, mount and 1934 PE scope.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok. I checked my records and found pictures of another PEM scope that is marked with the MO-51. Unfortunately, back in 2013, I saw this 1940 PEM scope after it was sold.

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That is really interesting....it appears some other than PU scopes were handled officially even tho no longer deemed correct for military service?
I wish Ratnik would jump in here and offer his opinion.
 

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This is from Alex's reference section:

M91/30 rifles and M44/M38 carbines were still used by army until the end of the 1950's, firearms which were in service were repaired by district repair depots. For example, the famous "MO" depot was a district repair depot. The "double" and "triple" dated "MO" rifles are just rifles which were in service and were refinished several times because it was necessary to do so, the date indicates the year of their repair/refinish.

That being said Purepeha's rifle was still in service in 1951 as a sniper rifle and likely sometime after that right until it was finally decommissioned (desnipered) by Arsenal N1 at a much later date
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hello Pavlin,

Found these pictures, years ago, I guess due to curiosity, I saved them. Have you seen some of these, I am thinking, homemade mounts?

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Hello Pavlin,

Found these pictures, years ago, I guess due to curiosity, I saved them. Have you seen some of these, I am thinking, homemade mounts?
yes PE mount appears to be someone's fantasy piece as well as PU mount
 

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This is from Alex's reference section:

M91/30 rifles and M44/M38 carbines were still used by army until the end of the 1950's, firearms which were in service were repaired by district repair depots. For example, the famous "MO" depot was a district repair depot. The "double" and "triple" dated "MO" rifles are just rifles which were in service and were refinished several times because it was necessary to do so, the date indicates the year of their repair/refinish.

That being said Purepeha's rifle was still in service in 1951 as a sniper rifle and likely sometime after that right until it was finally decommissioned (desnipered) by Arsenal N1 at a much later date
I was thrown off by the MO 51 on the PEM scope...so what the consensus of this marking is is that the Soviets refurbed PEM's after the intro and adoption of the PU system and kept them in the system as snipers?

Then this scope marking is rare but has been validated then.
 

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The MO has long been known to be s a refurb mark so the scope being marked MO is not a big surprise nor anything not possibly done by the Soviets. For years it was believed to be Minister of Ordnance, which was corrected quite a few years ago.

The PU mount looks like a replica that has been artificially aged. I can see the possibility of making a PU mount work by enlarging the mount and rings, adding long screws and probably getting scope eye from the weird eye relief? If I did that I would use a replica mount as to not ruin an original.
 

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I was thrown off by the MO 51 on the PEM scope...so what the consensus of this marking is is that the Soviets refurbed PEM's after the intro and adoption of the PU system and kept them in the system as snipers?

Then this scope marking is rare but has been validated then.

MO refurb marking on the scope does not indicate it was refurbished together with a rifle as its part. Every big repair depot had numerous workshops, for example firearms workshop, optics workshop and so on. When sniper rifles were sent for refurbishment, they were disassembled to parts, which were later assembled in random order. Scopes were sent to another workshop. In the case of PE and PEM sniper, it is quite plausible that the rifle was converted to ex sniper configuration, scope was sent to refurbishment and then put to storage without the rifle. Actually, I talked with guys who visited MO depot storages after the military unit was disbanded, they told me they saw racks which had tags indicating PEM scopes were stored there.
Latest refurb date that I saw at PEM scope was 1954.
But it seems some PE and PEM snipers were left in service at least during the early 1950's and some were refurbished. I came across a number of PEM and PE mounts which were obviously refurbished, and then matched to the rifle. Few samples

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PEM scopes inspection papers from 1960
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Thanks for the validation.
I was under the impression (assumed) that they would not maintain PE/PEM systems once the PU was designated the official sniper system.
Great place to learn something new.....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ratnik, thank you for all this information!

Very nice scopes.... specially the FED, is it a 1940 year?
 

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Ratnik, thank you for all this information!

Very nice scopes.... specially the FED, is it a 1940 year?
Yes FED is from 1940. But these are not my scopes. Just pictures from the old sales threads.
Besides, both scopes were never installed on the rifles. Papers mention they are "grade one" scopes, so they were never used
 
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