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Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
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Posted - 08/31/2003 : 06:32:13 AM
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I shall take Chris' long and thorough description of his Moschetto - which is exemplary ! - as a pretext or welcome occasion to post a bit of my own, opening a seperate thread in this course.


Originally posted by CJF

quote:
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Originally posted by Carcano
4. Can you give more details on your Moschetto TS 91 modificato, esp. its serial number, stock cartouche and exact condition ?
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4) Details of my Moschetto TS 91:
Octagonal barrel shank stamped on top flat with "BRESCIA". On first LHS flat with serial number "AG298" On second LHS flat "BL" w/in an oval and another stamp within a second oval that I cannot read. First RHS flat says "1917" and second RHS flat appears to have a "PG" on it.
Okay:
- The gun was made during the First World War in 1917 in the state factory of Brescia. We often write "military arsenal" (using US and other European parlance), but in Italian, "arsenal" would only refer to a naval arsenal.

- Moschetti TS 91 were made from 1898 to 1918 or 1919, only in Brescia. Brescia was also the only place where Moschetti per Cavalleria were made in this period. Long rifles ceased to be produced around 1900, but we lack enough data for early Fucili 91.

- PG would be the steel lot (or barrel blank) supplier, as is commonly believed. Alas, we lack a list of them, such as Lebel1886 has finely assembled in the French Firearms Board.

- The letter prefix of the serial number matches other known ones. The WW I production approximately went up to BG (1918) and BL (1919). Later numbers are very welcome.

- BL in oval, in this place as well as on the receiver, most likely designates the chief inspector of the factory (last name, first name). Be careful: similar letters on other parts may refer to the subcontractor of such parts, rather than to a inspector. The second stamp besides it is an oval with the crest of the House of Savoy: shield with cross, superimposed by a crown.


Receiver has these same two stamps at the 12 o'clock position (directly above chamber.) Markings are not terribly clear, but since metal is not worn or rusted, this almost seems to be due to bad stamps vs wear and tear. Interesting that receiver's serial number (AG296) does not match barrel (AG298).
No Italian receivers were ever serial numbered. The importer added it to satisfy BATF requirements, and some poor tired underqualified doofus employed at minimum wages did mis-stamp it.


Stock has side and bottom sling swivels. No stock cartouche, although remains of what is likely serial number visible near butt plate. Nose cap has small "ME" stamp. Finish is quite dark in color; a mix of red and brown that is walnut in color but stock is definitely not walnut. More like elm or beach in how it has crecent-shaped patterns in places. Very solid but missing varnish in places. Hand guard missing sliver by front band. No Cleaning rod missing.
The swivel & bar locations on Moschetti 91 in their various configuration, field repairs and post-modifications are truly a maze of their own. The special troops' carbines started out with only bottom swivels, but got side swivels added later, on request of the troops (to carry the carbine slung on the back more easily, e.g. artillery crews).

The same is true for the three different nosecap / front band variations:
# 1 is the long, swayed one, with the peculiar side-to-side bayonet lug.
# 2 is # 1, but refitted with the rifle-type bayonet lug (co-axial).
# 3 is the short rifle type front band with the rifle type bayonet lug.

The shellacked stock is certainly beech - the medullary rays which you describe are typical for this wood. Ash was also employed in the Great War, but I have never seen elm on Italian rifles, though I can't exclude it. It should be noted that walnut never totally ceased after the First World War, though beech then prevailed; but some restocked and/or specially chosen guns were fit with walnut stocks (mostly old reclaimed ones, very seldom new ones), even after WW II.
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano
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Edited by - Carcano on 08/31/2003 2:06:58 PM
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Len S
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 6:16:18 PM
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I picked this Carcano up from a "walk-in" at a show in Lakeland, Florida this past weekend. The barrel is marked "Brescia" & "1918" serial # BE1858. It has the most legible stock cartouche I've ever seen on a Carcano marked "Fabrica D'Arme Gardone VT/ Riparazione 1934 A.XII". It still retains the oddball lateral lug for the special TS bayonet and it has a funky sling bar that apparently attaches around the barrel and protrudes through the stock. There's also a small round cartouche on the left wrist that encloses what looks like a stylized "GB", Gardone Brevatto?

Best regards,
Len

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Len S/200392218119_ts1.jpg
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Atlpete
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 7:10:22 PM
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It's a beauty! with the cleaning rod no less, Congrats! I have a 1915 Brescia in essentially the same config albeit non-matching and no nifty clean cartouche, beautiful stock though anyway. I have found that the action on this particular "musket" is especially smooth.

The local dealer here has a matching 1918 Brescia w/rod with an arsenal repair around the forward sling bar for $200 (he's a little on the high side.) Give us a range report when you can.
Pete
 

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2006 buy

I picked up one in Nov. 2006 with a side repair, dated 1902, transverse lug like the photo, with crossed rifles/bullseye markings for $169. It needed a cleaning rod and handguard, which I later found. This, of course in 3 years after the earlier post.
 
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