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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #3
Not shrunk - rather non-existent.
 

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...yer right , of course. VOTE DEMOCRAT !! Vote for gun control...naw, CONFISCATION. Vote for the KELO decision of property confiscation, voted as law by the 5 liberal Scotus judges. Vote for gay marrage, forced bussing to achieve racial parity in schools, affirmative action, free borders and more taxes. Vote for Hillary....You deserve her.
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #5
There is always the guy who was once mayor of NYC - very conserative
 

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Silver Bullet member
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Unfortunately Greenspan didn't seem to care about spending of any level as long as taxes were raised to cover it. He supported Clinton's 1993 tax increase and spending increase.

Meanwhile the federal deficit is dropping like a rock, thanks to Bush's tax cuts, and should balance in a few years. If the Democrats dont raise taxes and spend a gazillion $$$$ on their wish list.

The only major long term budget problems are Medicare and Social Security - and they can be balanced by a increase in retirement age of less than 3 years.
 

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Not to open a can of worms here, but Greenspan has also said that a large part of the reason for invading Iraq was oil. The press is spinning that and reporting that he said it was the prime reason.

I don't take issue with Greenspan's comment - I've always maintained that the invasion was partly for control of a huge reserve of oil and partly Bush family honor. I'm just wondering if Greenspan is being truthful or if he just has a hardon for W.
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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He could be upset with with W or he could now be in a position where he can say what he thinks.

We may never know which reason wold be correct.
 

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Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
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Of course it was about oil - the world is full of dictators who brutalize their people, and we aren't in all of those countries. Really, is this a revelation? Any president of any stripe will move to protect American interests, including our access to oil. None will state it as a primary motivating factor, but does anyone really think it isn't? Personally I have no problem with this - those that do should ditch their cars and go live in a cave somewhere. I'd have a moral issue with it if we were actually stealing the oil, as the left loves to insinuate, rather than buying it on the world market at market-determined prices from suppliers who for the most part have nothing else to sell that they could sustain themselves with. I DO think it's a bit stupid that we refuse to pump out any of our own oil, based on overblown environmental concerns, while we buy it from folks with no environmental laws. Of course this may turn out to have been a wise strategy as the stuff will only get more valuable over time.
 

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Am I the only one who sees the 800 ton Godzilla that lives next door to Iraq? I've always felt that we went into the land of goat turds and sand to finish our ring around Iran. Not only does it keep them out of most of the oil patch it also gives us a great place to operate from when it becomes time to spit some Beech Nut in their eyes. That is why they can't afford to let us have Iraq. We have been fighting these guys since 1980. They like to get these other jokers to do their bidding but it is the Persian empire that is pulling the strings.
These are my thoughts on the matter and do not necessarily reflect the position of the Congress of the United States.
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #11
So it is your thought that we should invade Iran ??
 

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Oil Schmoil! Never was about the oil... if it was, prices would be way way down and we'd OWN Saudi Arabia & Kuwait, we had EVERY opportunity to do it... BTW... none, I repeat NONE of the oil coming out of Iraq after the war went to the USA, all refining contracts went to the EU countries... If it was about the oil we'd be getting way more than the paltry 2% of Iraqi oil imports before the war started. For those of you who didn't pay attention to the last time I showed the charts and numbers and contracts... I'm not going thru that all over again... just confirm yourselves as shills for MoveOn.Org if you believe that War for Oil bs. Oh and yes... Invade Iran and go for the "Hall of Centrifuges" first... and take the damn oil this time... spoils of war and all that!
 

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Diamond Bullet Member/Moderator
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Oil Schmoil! Never was about the oil... if it was, prices would be way way down and we'd OWN Saudi Arabia & Kuwait, we had EVERY opportunity to do it... BTW... none, I repeat NONE of the oil coming out of Iraq after the war went to the USA, all refining contracts went to the EU countries... If it was about the oil we'd be getting way more than the paltry 2% of Iraqi oil imports before the war started. For those of you who didn't pay attention to the last time I showed the charts and numbers and contracts... I'm not going thru that all over again... just confirm yourselves as shills for MoveOn.Org if you believe that War for Oil bs. Oh and yes... Invade Iraq and go for the "Hall of Centrifuges" first... and take the damn oil this time... spoils of war and all that!
It doesn't matter who the refining contracts go to - it's about a continued flow of oil onto the world market - where everyone buys their oil. We couldn't lift sanctions against Sadam for fear of what he'd do with the revenues so we had to get rid of him.
Of course WMD's were a factor. If before 9/11 we had conflicting reports about Saddam's WMD program we might have been willing to take a chance - but not in a post 9/11 world. But no one was ever serious about invading North Korea - even if they had WMD's there's nothing in North Korea that anyone wants or needs so it's not as much of a priority.
 

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Hussein demostrated a penchant for attacking his neighbors. That's what's different between him and all the other tinpot dictators in the world.
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #15
I do not recall him attacking Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan. 2/3 of his neighbors were not attacked. Hardly a penchant for attacking his neighbors.
 

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I do not recall him attacking Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan. 2/3 of his neighbors were not attacked. Hardly a penchant for attacking his neighbors.
Good discussion cpw :)
He did attack Iran, Kuwait, Israel, and Saudi Arabia.
Military blackmail is pretty close to being attacked also. And he was preparing to grab the Saudi oil fields when we started sending in our forces in in 1990. A couple of carrier battle groups and an air force fighter group rushing to the scene made him pause. The pause cost him any chance of success.
By containing Iran we get the time to let the Iranian people make a change in their government themselves. Which is a far better choice than invading the country. The Mullahs hijacked the last revolution and I hope the people are getting fed up. We can contain them as long as long as we can stop anything really nasty from flying out of Iran.
 

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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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Good discussion cpw :)
He did attack Iran, Kuwait, Israel, and Saudi Arabia.
Military blackmail is pretty close to being attacked also. And he was preparing to grab the Saudi oil fields when we started sending in our forces in in 1990. A couple of carrier battle groups and an air force fighter group rushing to the scene made him pause. The pause cost him any chance of success.
By containing Iran we get the time to let the Iranian people make a change in their government themselves. Which is a far better choice than invading the country. The Mullahs hijacked the last revolution and I hope the people are getting fed up. We can contain them as long as long as we can stop anything really nasty from flying out of Iran.


You either attack or you don't ttack. There is no such ting as being a little bit pregnant.

I do not recall any invasion of Israel or Saudi Araba. When did these events occur ??

As to Iran, the Iranian people are not going to change their government. You hope the people are getting fed up. Desire to get pregnant does not mean that it will occur.

Maybe I will win the lottery one of these days.
 

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If Saddam Hussein didn't have any oil he wouldn't have been able to attack his neighbors, start a couple of major wars and support terrorists.

So if he didn't have any oil we likely wouldn't have bothered to invade and overthrow him. There are plenty of other countries that are a pain in the butt and we haven't invaded them.

And if Iraq, today, didn't have any oil we'd be leaving it alone as pretty much harmless, as long as al Queda didn't try to use it as a base.

Unfortunately the oil, the second biggest proven reserves, possibly the biggest actual reserves in the world, a valuable resource necessary to the world economy, makes Iraq impossible to ignore.

Unlike Vietnam - a poverty stricken area where the only real worries were long term Cold War geopolitics - the loss of Iraq to an enemy regime or terror organization would have an immediate and disasterous economic effect on each one of us. As Greenspan was the #1 US economist I have to assume he was writing about the economic reasons for our Iraq policy.

Greenspan, as usual, is too damned cryptic for his own good and reallly seems, at times, to write and speak as if people could read his mind. Add that to Greenspan's brief at the Fed to control inflation, with the health of the economy as only a secondary consideration, and you need a Rosetta stone and a lot of research to figure out what he's talking about. The guy reads the Fed and Commerce Dept. raw statistical reports for fun!
 
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