[Poot]

Thanks to many if you here, I was able to get many VIS 35 and BHP questions answered. Thank y'all again! For several reasons, I'd shelved the idea of fulfilling a long time desire to have a non-German, Nazi marked handgun.

I was at my new favorite gun shop picking up a Polish AK and suddenly spotted what I am pretty sure is a Grade 2, three lever VIS 35. It has great bluing, a fantastic throat/bore, and several '77' Waffen Ampt stamps in the right spots. One thing that has me wondering is that the barrel does not have any serial number I can see. The frame and back strap serials match, the single mag is unnumbered, but WaA marked. Asking price is $469. Does this sound like a deal? Its a great looking pistol, and in my price range.

Opinions?
Thanks for your time,
Pat

 

[ij70]

It is on the barrel, but not in the area of ejection port. You have to take the barrel out to see it, which means partial disassembly of the pistol.

Here is an example, probably last 3 digits of the serial number, 280: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?26775-VIS-35-Blued-Barrel

 

[Poot]

Very interesting, thanks!
I thought that the barrel's serial was visible from the breech with the slide locked back. I'll have to see what the story is with the pistol in question, although it won't make or break the deal for me.

Pat

 

[mike radford]

There is a number on the slide on the inside when disassembled. The extractor is also numbered and visible with a flash light and some contorsion. Good luck. Sounds like a good prospect.

 

[cpw]

Very interesting, thanks!
I thought that the barrel's serial was visible from the breech with the slide locked back. I'll have to see what the story is with the pistol in question, although it won't make or break the deal for me.

Pat

It (last 3 digits) is on the left side of the barrel lug.

 

[kp321]

If the s/n on the barrel is visible, it has been renumbered. He Russians re-did these pistols and force matched the slides, barrels and frames, reblued them too. The blue on all of the original two lever models I have seen was very thin and the barrels were not blued. The RC's have dark blue, including the barrel.

 

[Poot]

Thanks all,
I'll need to sell something to grab this one, so first things first, I guess. Next time I'm there I'll ask to field strip it and get a closer look.
Thanks again,
Pat

 

[Homer2]

The price on that Radom is really good if not refinished. Even if the barrel is mismatch, it's still a good value. Usually these things sell for 550 - 900 depending on condition and model.

 

[Poot]

Thanks Homer. What would someone unfamiliar with VIS 35s look for to detect refinishing?
Thanks,
Pat

 

[kp321]

Judging by the ones I have owned, if it looks too good, it has been refinished. The original finish was thin and many machine marks were present. The earlier three lever pistols were better and the original Polish guns were beautiful.

 

[curly1]

Can you get pice to post?

Also if you flled strip it too check the barrel review the info here first, paying special attention to the 2nd sentence of the instructions during disassmbly and reassembly.

http://www.marstar.ca/AssemblyPolish.htm

And whatever you don't fool around with the 2 part captive recoil spring guide by compressing it.

It can cause the pin holding the 2 part recoil spring guide to come loose and get hung up in the guide and you will have a job on your hands getting it apart and back together.

Trust me I know.

 

[mike radford]

If the s/n on the barrel is visible, it has been renumbered. He Russians re-did these pistols and force matched the slides, barrels and frames, reblued them too. The blue on all of the original two lever models I have seen was very thin and the barrels were not blued. The RC's have dark blue, including the barrel.

When it comes to the Russian captured Radoms, there is variation. I have a 1938 Polish Eagle Russian capture and it has original finish with pitting, matching numbers and a Polish magazine. The barrel remains in the white. That said, what you say is generally the case but not always. I have another Eagle from 1939 complete with mismatched Eagle barrel and Polish mag but renumbered slide that was originally in the first C block.

Pat, get the recent Radom book at about $50. It is pretty good and will help you. It probably will save you more than $50. Also, read every post here and on Jan Still's Forum on these pistols you can find. You will get a feel for original finish and how it evolved. Also, most original pistols will have the barrel in the white, except some Navy isssued guns which will also usually lack a lanyard loop.

 

[Poot]

Thanks again for the replies. Gary, that's a great link, thanks. I'll use that when I look at the weapon next, if it's still there.

I'll try and get an idea of whether or not it's been reblued. While I love firearms books, I can't justify dropping $50 on one when I'll only own one example of that particular weapon. Regardless, I've heard great things about that book, it sounds like a winner.
Best,
Pat

 

[Poot]

One more question regarding books:

Is Lapin's VIS-35 book any good? Would it be a decent choice for someone who plans on owning only one VIS-35?
Thanks,
Pat

 

[mike radford]

Thanks again for the replies. Gary, that's a great link, thanks. I'll use that when I look at the weapon next, if it's still there.

I'll try and get an idea of whether or not it's been reblued. While I love firearms books, I can't justify dropping $50 on one when I'll only own one example of that particular weapon. Regardless, I've heard great things about that book, it sounds like a winner.
Best,
Pat

Pat, I would get the book. I know what you mean about getting a book for one firearm but traditionally firearms books have been an excellent investment in more ways than one. They can save you more than $50 on a single purchase, sometimes way more. I bought the signed Clawson 1911 big book when it came out at about $60. Average value today--about $750+. I started to buy Jan Still's Axis pistol book when it came out at about $50. Decided I would find too many pistols I wanted so declined. Made more than $50 in mistakes without it since then and average value of it today $300-350. All of Jan's books are worth many times their purchase price. The K98k Kriegsmodell book has tripled in value in just a year or two. Just a few examples. There is also lots of pleasure to be gained from just reading and understanding these weapons.

On any specific pistol you may find, post a few pictures if possible. We can help you figure out the finish on the majority of examples pretty quick. One rule is, be skeptical if the barrel is blue. Also, did you read the tread where I posted a bunch of examples of various serial ranges, along with some other folks posted examples, about the time this thread began?

 

[Poot]

No, I didn't catch that one...got a link? I'm currently out of town and using an iPhone to type this.

I appreciate the advice on the book. I've nothing against them, just that if the pistol is gone by the time I get the money together, it will kind of be a moot point for me. Who is the author of the 'new' book? William J. York?
Thanks,
Pat

 

[mike radford]

Hi Pat. Try "Radom" on the search feature for this forum. You will get a lot of pictures that way. In the 1/23/12 thread I posted a 38 Eagle, a first A, first B, first F, first K and second K block example. A small sampling of original finishes. There are a bunch that will come up with the search feature. If you are a member on Jan Still's Forum, search that one and you can probably get a few dozen examples to look at to get a feel for the original finishes. The pistol you were looking at would never last in this area, unless refinished or mismatched, at that price. Good luck.

 

[curly1]

Here is an example of what the book covers.

http://www.fn-browning.com/vis_radom_pistols_book.htm

 

[Poot]

Curly, that's the book I'm about to pull the trigger on. I swear, you guys are sucking me in...!

Thanks for the info, Mike. I couldn't find any pics of pistols in your posts for 23 January 2012 or thereabouts. My search abilities on Gunboards are HORRIBLE. I don't know why, but I can find anything on other forums, but not Gunboards...

I looked at the pistol again this morning on the way home from work. I reviewed a video for field stripping the weapon before I got there, and then they let me do it in the shop. The action is still nice and tight, and the bluing is somewhat faded but in good shape. There are three levers on the weapon, and no notch for the shoulder stock. There is significant bluing wear to the backstrap. All of the numbers match, but the (original) number on the left side of the barrel lug was lined through, and the last three numbers of the serial that is on the rest of the parts was stamped below it, with what looks like exactly the same size numbers. Otherwise, all of the numbers I could find match exactly. There is one unnumbered magazine included, with a WaA of 123, I believe. The rest of the gun has 77 stamps, but the barrel is stamped with a eagle/swastika and a 623 (Steyr?). The bore is pretty bright, with at least VG+ lands and dusty but definitely not pitted grooves. The serial is stamped only on the left side of the lug, and is not visible from the breech.

The left side of the slide has the 'regular' Radom legend on it with the patent(?) number, with a couple of WaA 77 stamps, but no 'P.35(p)' stamp. The grips are black plastic with 'VIS' on one side, and 'FB' on the other. They are complete and without cracks. The grip screws are not buggered.

Anything sound unusual/undesirable about this one? Any red flags yet? I am leaning strongly towards grabbing this up tomorrow, and breaking my rule of selling an unwanted gun FIRST before buying one I want, but I don't want this to slip through if it's a good one. From what I've been able to read, this does not sound like a Soviet refurb. Even if it was, I don't think I'd mind. Unlike K98k rifles, my experience has been that they actually kept matching parts together during the refurb process. I used to have an AC 42 P.38 that was a refurb, was all matching, and only lacked the red paint for the 'fire' designation bubble near the safety.

Opinions? Comments? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge, your hobby, and your time.
Pat

 

[mike radford]

Pat, that barrel number is very odd. That spooks me. What is the serial, or at least the block. The serial number is a wealth of info in and of itself. Three lever guns with no slot run from about late first D block till about Z. That is a large number of pistols with misc. finish quality. With York's book, one of the biggest complaints is B&W pics so it will not help much in determining finish.

If I was smart enough to do a link, I would do so. If you are on this forum and click search, just do RADOM. That should be enough. I posted the pics I could find in my gunboards pics file. Maybe they will help.