mn-38 stock question
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Post war M38 stocks exist as well so it's hard to be difinitive on this point.
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Yes, a 1943 in a wartime M38 stock is quite correct.
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What would my 1945 M38 wear? An M44 stock to be correct?
Either stock would be correct, the m-44 stock was starting to be used in early 43 on some 38's,also they early m-44 stocks looked differenty from later ones!
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So this would be the correct stock for my 1945 M38?
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?158612-Big-5-comes-through-for-me!-1945-Izhevsk-M38
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?158612-Big-5-comes-through-for-me!-1945-Izhevsk-M38
Where do you find this information? Trials were being conducted on the M44 in 1943, so why would they started using a "trial" designed stock on a production gun that is not the same model and the trial M44 is not even approved yet?
http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/russian-m44-carbine.asp
The Model 1944 Carbine was designed with the earlier Russian Model 1938 Carbine as an official blueprint, with the only major deviation in overall design being the addition of some form of bayonet. Bayonet testing was undertaken in 1943, with a specimen designed by N.S. Semin becoming design of choice. The selected bayonet was a permanent side folder and seemed the perfect solution to the Soviet dilemma. The short length of the carbine would not be affected in normal use and the side- folding bayonet could smoothly be extended when necessity arose. The added convenience of a permanently attached 15.1 inch crucifix bayonet was that this was one less item the Red Army soldier would be forced to carry, or lose for that matter. The carbine can be fired with the bayonet folded in place or extended, but it is important to note that the M44 was designed to be fired with the bayonet in the extended position. This design fact means when the bayonet is not extended, the point of aim/impact changes. A small slot, or channel, was carved into the right side of the stock that allowed the tip of the bayonet to rest when not extended. This added groove is the only major stock modification that separates the M44 carbine stock from the earlier M38 carbine stock. Although one source states differently there were indeed "dimples" cut into both M91/30 and M38 stocks. These dimples are located behind the rear barrel band. M38 carbines can also be found in M44 stocks. As the M44 stock will fit both models production of the M38 stock was halted once M44 production was underway, since there was no real reason to produce two stock types when one would do. So M38 carbines made from 1943--1945 might well have been fitted with M44 stocks at the factory.
There was also a limited use of a laminated stock for the M44 during the war years, as it seem that in 1943 the Soviets were producing a version of laminate stock for the Mosin Nagant- the first production of laminates being for the M38 carbine. The wartime use of laminate stocks was by no means common as most laminate stocks are post war manufactured. Almost allt of the M44 laminate stocks have a reinforcing bar/screw in the rear of the stock behind the trigger housing to add strength as it was found these stocks could crack during firing. There are at least two distinct color variations of these laminate stocks that collectors have observed. The first variations have a blonde hue while the second specimens are more red in color. It has been suggested the blonde stock is the original color while the red is the result of the shellac added later. This does indeed seem to be the case in examples that I have examined, as the Soviet use of shellac seems to have been dropped or scaled back as standard practice during the War years. It is assumed this was done to ease in production time as anything that saved production time would have been implemented. While laminate M44 stocks seem to have captured the interest of collectors the fact is these are not rare nor uncommon. It is rather rare to locate a true laminate M38 stock or a laminate M91/30 stock but this is not the case with the M44 carbine. Laminate M44 stocks are pretty commonplace with most being fitted post war.
I think this date is in error or mistyped. The production of the trial M44's was in the November-December time frame of 1943. The design wasn't approved until January of 1944. They would not have used a "trial" designed stock on a production weapon(M38) that had already been in production since Feb, 1939, almost 4 years total. Only after the "trial" design of the M44 had been accepted did they feel it was unnecessary to make two stocks, when one version would fit on both designs.
The same topic was also discussed at the 7.62X54 net early this yr. I had picked up a M-38, 42-Izzy in a early M-44 laminate stock with the early rear crossbolt etc, the gun was refurbed marked!
So from all i read, either stock could be correct, also from all i hear 42-43 Izzy Mosins were made a little on the Rough side!
So from all i read, either stock could be correct, also from all i hear 42-43 Izzy Mosins were made a little on the Rough side!
Your 1942 M38 in an early M44 laminated stock with refurb mark does not establish anything, except that it was refurbed and put into an M44 stock. Has nothing to do with the year the carbine was made and what it originally was stocked in at that 1942 date. At refurb it became a mix of whatever parts were available.
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A 1942 dated model 1938 carbine would not have been made with a 1944 model stock. The stock on your rifles was replaced during the refurbishment process post war. The 1944 style stock was not even in production until 1943 in late November/December so its impossible to be made two years earlier. The fact that some 1943 dated carbines mat be wearing m/44 stocks is very hard to ascertain when that stock was added. Production of the model 1938 style stock was halted in 1944 and some 1945 dated gun may be wearing them as they simply used what was on hand till they were exhausted. I too have a 1945 dated m/38 in a 38 style stock using all of the features of the late carbine stocks. It is "more" common to see late 1944 and 1945 if found-carbines wearing the wearing model 1944 pattern stocks. So m/38's wearing such a stock from 1944 to 1945 would not be out of spec and maybe, maybe a very late 1943 m/38 carbine but I would bet on that being a replacement.
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I certainly would not call it incorrect...
1945 was another year of transitions in Mosin production. As noted by your fine example, the metal finish and stampings are much nicer then the '42-'43 time frame. The sling slot escucheons, albeit the pressed design came back into being sometime in 1945....
The one thing cuious about your rifle is the EP bolt serial, usually associated with refurbishment. Refurbed rifles will have any type of stock fitted to them. You are quite fortunate in having a great M38 stock on yours with a nice cartouche still intact.
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So that stock was made before 1944...?
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Sorry, the stock in this thread: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?158612-Big-5-comes-through-for-me!-1945-Izhevsk-M38
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Late 1941 to early 1945.
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