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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found a Berthier made by MAC in 1917 (October 1917 on the stock). It's all matching, bolt, bolt head, barrel trigger guard and cleaning rod. It also has a great bore. The carbine is something of a time capsule as it does not appear to have ever been rebuilt. The stock shows no signs of ever having been fitted with a handguard, there is no cut for the rear ring shaped band. The center band is not the sort which would accept a handguard either. The five shot clip extension does not have a serial number. My question is, did the French make Mle 16 carbines without handguards for a while? Thank you.
 

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The very first Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle Modifié 1916’s were at first produced exactly like the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892, no hand guards, rotating swivel mounted on the underside of the stock except for the addition of the extended 5-shot magazine which we will call the Premier (1er) Type (First (1st) Type). These were made from the period of October of 1917 to December of 1917.
Starting in December of 1917 it was decided to change this particular model to include a top hand guard with a rear barrel band that fit over the hand guard to keep it in place and replace the rotating swivel mounted on the underside of the stock with the inletted notch and sling bar which we will call the Deuxième (2ème) Type. With the extra features the carbine version weighed a hefty 3,100 kg (6.84 pounds).
NOTE: These designations are not official designations, just a collectors designation to differentiate between the two different types of Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle Modifié 1916’s.

Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the information Patrick! I have littel experience with these carbines.

By the way, my example has the rotating sling swivel mounted on the underside of the stock rather than the sling bar.
 

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Thank you for the information Patrick! I have littel experience with these carbines.

By the way, my example has the rotating sling swivel mounted on the underside of the stock rather than the sling bar.
Patrick's informations are spot on, your musketoon with a reception stamp of october 1917 (Serial number above E 80.000) is part of the 1st batch of Mle 16 made by MACin the fall of1917, according to data gathered by Alamas, at total of 40.000 Mle 16 musketoons were manufactured without handguard and still fitted with the rear sling swivel (E 80.000 to AB 20.000).

Some pictures of the markings and détails of the receiver/magazine area would be interesting, some variation of détails have been observed among these early Mle 16 (Vivelacolo).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·














As requested, here are some images of the Mle 16 and it's markings.

(Now, if I could only find an appropriately well used, dark leather sling and a bayonet.)
 

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Interesting pictures.

The 5 shot magazine is an early fabrication, note the large magazine door with lateral knurling.

The serial number, E 44.000 being accepted in October 1917 is a few month late, according to known records (In October it was the E 80.000 range) may indicates an early rejection and return to the assembly line for fixing defects, or a possible early miss in the numbering made good.

kelt
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A fine musketoon calls for a bottle of muscatel.

On a more sober note, am I correct in my understanding that the Model 1916 Bertheir musketoon was not accepted into service until Oct. 1917?
 

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According to the stamp on the stock which is the reception committee stamp (Comité De La Réception ) this is when it was accepted for service into the army.

Patrick
 
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