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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As mil-surp Mosin Nagant m91/30 owners, we have all found that our rifles... when using Russian mil-surp ammo... are rarely sighted in for the ranges set to on the rear sights.

To be a few inches off of zero at whatever range we check our rifles zero at is one thing BUT most of the time we find that the POI at whatever range we have set the rear sight to when using mil-surp ammo and shooting at a corresponding range results in a POI that is WAYYYYY out.

My question is why?

I assume that the majority of m91/30 rifles we own have gone thru a overhaul process of some sort prior to coming into out possession. I would think that these "overhauled" rifles would be "zeroed" using milspec ammo PRIOR to being preserved and packed. I cant imagine otherwise. Why would a country issue rifles to its service people..... in a time of war..... and think that the service person has anything better to do (while the hoards of invaders are over running Mother Russia,) than to go out to the local "zeroing' range and pop a few rounds to adjust the front sight to "zero" the sighting system. (run on sentence.... sorry)

It seems that the front sight assemblies we are getting on the m91/30's are just.... installed... and thats it. Sometimes the windage is OK but the elevation issues are differnt from gun to gun.

Any thoughts?
 

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I do not know where you are going with this but I can tell you all my 1891/1930's rear sights are zeroed when using all sorts of different countries 7,62x54R mm milsurp ammo. If I want to shoot the different ranges I set the rear sight slider to that range and it dead on, the only thing I have to do especially at long ranges is see what the wind is doing at muzzle, mid-range and the target.

Patrick
 

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The way they zeroed the rifle was with the bayonet attached fired from the prone position off a rest at 100 meters. They placed their left hand supporting the rifle on the rest and sights set at 300 meters. The rifle's aiming point was the center of the bottom edge of a black rectangle which was 30 cm (12") tall by 20 cm (8") wide, which would be simulating shooting at belt buckle high. The impact was 17 cm (6.69") above the point of aim at the 300 meter sight setting. 4 shots were fired and if they fell inside a 15 cm (5.90") circle with an average center not diverging from the aiming point of more than 5 cm (1.96") the rifle was considered as confirmed as acceptable. If adjustments we to be made they were done right on the spot, if the rifle did not produce a grouping above after 3 changes, it was to be discarded and returned. All original shots, any changes to the sight etc. were to be recorded in the soldiers book.

Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
1886lebel. Thanks for the info. 50% of my m91/30 didnt have included the bayonet....or any of the other accesories tht came with the rifles a few years ago. I'll give your instructions a try.
 

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The way they zeroed the rifle was with the bayonet attached fired from the prone position off a rest at 100 meters. They placed their left hand supporting the rifle on the rest and sights set at 300 meters. The rifle's aiming point was the center of the bottom edge of a black rectangle which was 30 cm (12") tall by 20 cm (8") wide, which would be simulating shooting at belt buckle high. The impact was 17 cm (6.69") above the point of aim at the 300 meter sight setting. 4 shots were fired and if they fell inside a 15 cm (5.90") circle with an average center not diverging from the aiming point of more than 5 cm (1.96") the rifle was considered as confirmed as acceptable. If adjustments we to be made they were done right on the spot, if the rifle did not produce a grouping above after 3 changes, it was to be discarded and returned. All original shots, any changes to the sight etc. were to be recorded in the soldiers book.Patrick
That would Angle of Kraut accuracy in WWII. Must have worked well
 

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The several refurbs I have gotten straight out of the Big Five box shot to POA pretty well. I have also shot a fair number of them at the range for new owners who said the rifles couldn't shoot straight and I generally did fine with my own milsurp ammo shooting light ball. Only one or two needed a minor front sight drift, easily done.

That said, an armorer was supposed to be available to adjust any rifles that couldn't pass the accuracy tests described in the Red Army manual, so a rifle slightly off got a quick fix its first day at the range.
 

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The way they zeroed the rifle was with the bayonet attached fired from the prone position off a rest at 100 meters. They placed their left hand supporting the rifle on the rest and sights set at 300 meters. The rifle's aiming point was the center of the bottom edge of a black rectangle which was 30 cm (12") tall by 20 cm (8") wide, which would be simulating shooting at belt buckle high. The impact was 17 cm (6.69") above the point of aim at the 300 meter sight setting. 4 shots were fired and if they fell inside a 15 cm (5.90") circle with an average center not diverging from the aiming point of more than 5 cm (1.96") the rifle was considered as confirmed as acceptable. If adjustments we to be made they were done right on the spot, if the rifle did not produce a grouping above after 3 changes, it was to be discarded and returned. All original shots, any changes to the sight etc. were to be recorded in the soldiers book.

Patrick
Since you seem to be quoting something 9in this post I was wondering just exactly what it is and also where you got the information about soldiers note books. Bill
 

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I basically got a translation of one of the Imperial Russian manuals and a WWII Soviet one by a good friend of mine in Russia where they talked about how the rifle was to be zeroed, shooting positions, etc.
The soldiers book both Imperial and Soviet had an area in in where you logged your firearm, shots, score, etc. in it.

Patrick
 

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That would Angle of Kraut accuracy in WWII. Must have worked well


Hello milprileb,

Originally it was "minute of Prussian" accuracy. The practice of zeroing in "Mosin-Nagants" with the bayonet mounted goes back to the introduction of the "M1891 Three-Line Rifle" long before the M91/30 became the primary version of the "Mosin" that was the standardized variation under the old Soviet Union.

The only exceptions during the Imperial era were the M1891 Three-Line Cossack Rifles and the M1907 Three-Line Carbines. The Cossack rifle and the Carbine were never issued with bayonets, while the M1891 Infantry rifle and the M1891 Dragoon rifle were always issued with bayonets (IF they were available!). While there were unknown numbers of early bayonet scabbards produced, they were inconsequential relative to the millions of M91s produced prior to and leading up to WWI.

Both the Imperial Cossack Regiments as well as the Imperial Cavalry units were issued with Sashka's and/or lances prior to WWI, which in the doctrine of the day, precluded the need for bayonets among these units. The rare exception was the "St. Petersburg" Cavalry School Carbines that were issued to a percentage of Cossack Regiments with folding bayonets during WWI.

So "moment of Prussian" exceeded "Moment of Kraut" by 24 years.

;>)

Warmest regards,

JPS
 

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My Moment of Prussian LOL
 

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The way they zeroed the rifle was with the bayonet attached fired from the prone position off a rest at 100 meters. They placed their left hand supporting the rifle on the rest and sights set at 300 meters. The rifle's aiming point was the center of the bottom edge of a black rectangle which was 30 cm (12") tall by 20 cm (8") wide, which would be simulating shooting at belt buckle high. The impact was 17 cm (6.69") above the point of aim at the 300 meter sight setting. 4 shots were fired and if they fell inside a 15 cm (5.90") circle with an average center not diverging from the aiming point of more than 5 cm (1.96") the rifle was considered as confirmed as acceptable. If adjustments we to be made they were done right on the spot, if the rifle did not produce a grouping above after 3 changes, it was to be discarded and returned. All original shots, any changes to the sight etc. were to be recorded in the soldiers book.

Patrick
Hello,

This is correct. Additionally, the soldiers did use the slider during combat.

The commander of the unit was in charge of telling the soldier what range on which to set the sights. He would then tell them the number of rounds to fire, and give the command.

Upon cease-fire, the soldier would immediately return his rifle to 100 meters.

They were not riflemen, but they did believe in well-aimed, accurate fire in addition to human wave attacks.

Regards,

Josh
 
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